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Batteries: How cheap can they get?

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Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#131

Post by duffpkg »

cyberax wrote: post #117
MichaelNolan wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say $89/kwh, are you talking about just cells, or assembled packs? I’m just about to buy a 5kw Lifepo4 server rack battery from EG4 for a diy project. It’s closer to $220/kwh This is what I’m planning to buy, but you know something better I’d love to take a look. https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48...

Do you know if these batteries be used as a replacement for batteries of a lead-acid UPS? I have a Tripp-Lite rack-mount UPS with an extension battery, but its battery has degraded and it can only sustain my computing load for 3-4 hours. It'd be great to replace it with an LFP battery.

For that low a power need Anker and some others make ready to go units you can buy off of amazon that are pretty reasonable.

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#132

Post by drozycki »

epups wrote: post #111

> If we start with 2410 GWh in 2023 and grow with 59% per year that gives us 61.917 GWh in 2030. That would mean almost exactly 8 doublings in 2030. For context, the global electricity consumption in 2019 was around 23 TWh [1]. [1] https://www.iea.org/reports/electricity-information-overview...

23000 TWh, or 23 PWh according to your link

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#134

Post by coldtea »

oezi wrote: post #99
GaggiX wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Probably half of today. A 410W solar panel at 29€? I really doubt that honestly. Cheaper than plywood.

Economies of scale baby. Another 10x more in production another 30% less in price.

>Economies of scale baby.

That's what they said about regular electric grid power too - that it "soon" would be so cheap as to be unmetered. That was half a century ago and it didn't pan out...

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#135

Post by iamthemonster »

oezi wrote: post #119
moffkalast wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... about 30k for 60kwh to cover 30kwh daily use with solar charging, and probably another 10k for installation. Hmm yes super cheap, might impulse buy later.

Unlikely that you need more than 10kwh. You just want to cover morning and evening electricity consumption. During the day you recharge and consume directly.

Absolutely agree - I think people fall into a major fallacy with sizing their battery systems. Their power consumption probability* distribution is skewed, and they think their battery needs to be sized for 99% or 100% of their daily consumptions. This gives a drastically oversized battery.

Instead, a simple approach is to download the daily power consumption for a year and size the battery for about your 80th-90th percentile consumption. You tend to find the sizing is not that sensitive to whether you go for 80th or 90th percentile, and in any case the batteries come in standard sizes.

If you've sized your battery system economically, it should be empty a good proportion of the time, but that just doesn't "feel right" to consumers.

* Yes I mean frequency not probability but I didn't want to cause confusion with electrical frequency

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#136

Post by iamthemonster »

duffpkg wrote: post #63
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds great, but are there actual businesses who will come to your home and do an install, or do you need to to become a mad-scientist electrician and DIY? I got quotes on getting an LG system a few years ago and it was 4X these prices (also for me a problem is that my 'ancient' panels from 2013 use a single inverter instead of microinverters, so if I touch the system I have to replace it all). I keep hoping there w…

All of the quotes and interactions I had with the local solar installers were reminiscent of the used car lot if not outright fraud. I was able to do what was permissible myself and a regular licensed electrician did the rest. The equipment is UL listed. There was some learning curve but I found the diysolarforum.com to be a pretty good resource to learn what I didn't know. I ran the whole setup standalone for about…

This approach may vary by country. Not a single sparky in Australia will sign off on someone else's solar/battery install.

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#137

Post by iamthemonster »

denkmoon wrote: post #120
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds great, but are there actual businesses who will come to your home and do an install, or do you need to to become a mad-scientist electrician and DIY? I got quotes on getting an LG system a few years ago and it was 4X these prices (also for me a problem is that my 'ancient' panels from 2013 use a single inverter instead of microinverters, so if I touch the system I have to replace it all). I keep hoping there w…

Some people cold knocked on my dad's door and 3 weeks later he's got a wall of batteries in the garage. Rural Australia. So yeah, there are businesses that'll do it.

Australia has become SO competitive for solar and battery installation you can actually be fairly safe nowadays just picking any old supplier that has >4.7* on google and there'll almost definitely be Going with a door knocking sales rep for home batteries would be madness in most countries but chances are pretty good that in Australia you would get a perfectly decent product.

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#138

Post by Panzer04 »

silverquiet wrote: post #33
ss64 wrote: post #4

The cost of 50AH Li-Ion batteries is getting close to the point where they may start to compete with Lead acid for gas powered cars.

I looked at it and couldn’t find any that offered enough cranking amps. I’m not sure how easy it would be to design a lifepo4 battery for the application.

Lithium batteries are more than capable of starting cars, and at a fraction of the size (just look up "car starters" and the like on Amazon - those are usually a tiny lithium battery that you pull 50c from). The thing is they are usually much pricier for an equivalent size battery and have problems in the cold that make them unsuitable in some climates.

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#139

Post by [deleted] »

thrtythreeforty wrote: post #49
duffpkg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Totally disconnected, zero power bill. That home is in a jurisdiction where that is permissible.

In jurisdictions where that's not legal, can you realistically maintain a connection for just the cost of the customer fee and draw no other power? Or are there typically other roadblocks to installing solar in such places?

[deleted]

Re: Batteries: How cheap can they get?

#140

Post by rgmerk »

ss64 wrote: post #4

The cost of 50AH Li-Ion batteries is getting close to the point where they may start to compete with Lead acid for gas powered cars.

“The cost of gasoline is coming down to the point where gasoline-powered lanterns may become the lighting of choice for carriages”.
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