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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

131–140 of 599 posts

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#131
4x more soldiers killed themselves than died in combat since 9/11. [0]

At least 2X more soldiers kill themselves in peacetime than die in combat in every war that we as a species has tracked suicide rates for veterans.

[0](https://www.npr.org/2021/06/24/1009846329/military-suicides-...)

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#132

I didn’t read the article. I mainly come here for the commentary and the backdoor links. But! Hormone replacement therapy is a game changer for a lot of men who have CTE. I’m a clinical social worker. I’ve worked in emergency medicine, correctional medicine, and now outpatient psychotherapy. I used to think HRT was for ego lifters and old ladies. But I have seen first hand the value of HRT for CTE patients. I’ve seen…

What do you think the mechanism behind this is? I wouldn't intuitively think HRT would help much with a damaged brain, unless the damage itself somehow caused a hormone imbalance.

Damage to the brain causes damage to the HPTA. HPTA damage leads to out of "whack" hormones, leading to knock off problems.

Hormone replacement would remedy some of these issues. The same can be seen in people under chronic stress or substance abusers.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#133
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between small arms and artillery is absolutely enormous. Handguns and rifles make loud popping noises. Exploding artillery shells are concussive bombs that produce brain rattling blasts.

In WW1, they called it "shell shock" for soldiers incapacitated without obvious injury. In WW2 it was called "battle fatigue", and now TBI. It seems the WW1 doctors got it right the first time.

What? Shell shock is PTSD. The doctors were concerned about concussive trauma but investigated and ruled it out as the cause.

The concern itself was right to have, but I don't think the concern has ever gone away.

So I don't characterize that as very "right the first time".

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#134
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In WW1, they called it "shell shock" for soldiers incapacitated without obvious injury. In WW2 it was called "battle fatigue", and now TBI. It seems the WW1 doctors got it right the first time.

Also, artillery has gotten bigger and boomier since then. If it was bad then, it’s likely worse now.

Hmm. Wasn't WWI "peak artillery"? We use 155mm and rockets now, right?

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#135
Misc info on weapon sound pressure.

The Carl Gustav 8.4cm recoilless rifle now be procured by the Marines has a big back-blast through the typical venturi used by these kinds of weapons. In training, (Sweden at least) they are limited to the number of rounds they can fire. I do not know if this for merely hearing loss, or if there are concussive effects.

Also, while "small arms" do not typically have concussive effects, I have stood behind a.50 Barrett rifle discharge and there was a noticable shock wave in the air. I didn't feel it in my head, but my intestines were not happy. If you were in the front hemisphere of the muzzle blast it would be far worse.

Muzzle brakes on rifles usually make the blast wave propagate more to the side. A high caliber rifle with a muzzle brake could easily hit 160db. Maybe a .50 cal could go higher. So now you are even punishing your friends, not just folks downrange.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#136
post #6

This is the kind of research I've been yearning to see on suicide. Just telling people not to, or to call a hotline, seemed like the worst most patronizing advice as it never solved the underlying thing. I've since learned that there is a subset of suicidal people where that's enough, where the suicidal tendency is a kneejerk decision that can be disrupted, but it bugged me that its not serving everyone that becomes…

It's important to view suicide not from the "I don't want to live" perspective and rather from the "I don't want to be in pain" viewpoint. I feel this article does a good job of not explicitly saying this when describing what must have been an agonizing existence for David Metcalf before he took his life.

Correct. Pain is the explanation. It's obvious when you realize that opioids relieve depression. They aren't a good long term solution though.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#137
post #135

Misc info on weapon sound pressure. The Carl Gustav 8.4cm recoilless rifle now be procured by the Marines has a big back-blast through the typical venturi used by these kinds of weapons. In training, (Sweden at least) they are limited to the number of rounds they can fire. I do not know if this for merely hearing loss, or if there are concussive effects. Also, while "small arms" do not typically have concussive effec…

I live in a small town with a gun dealer who is not particularly thoughtful about others. One year he had a truck-mounted cannon made for the fourth of july parade, and he fired it off numerous times throughout the parade. Everyone who didn't already have their ears covered, including so many young kids, doubled over each time it went off. He just laughed at everyone, even with kids crying on both sides of the street. People were talking in person and online about how their ears rang for days afterward.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#138
post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

Unlikely, but… Small arms enthusiasts are often not great with hearing protection. As hearing declines, men especially tend to be less proactive in seeking care, mostly hearing aids.

Why does this matter? Hearing loss is often a causative factor with depression, social isolation, anxiety and early onset dementia.

Fear and anxiety drive a lot of the behavior that gun merchants leverage to sell guns. It’s a vicious cycle.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Being-Shot Intrigued, I got some info from wikihow. > If you are a fast runner or have bad knees, run in a straight line away from the attacker towards cover. The faster you can get away, the fewer shots they will be able to fire. >If you are a slower runner and do not have knee trouble, a zig-zag run may be a better option. You may still be hit in this case, but the chances of being hit…

I’m guessing there aren’t many studies on this, but as a young, fast runner I’d zigzag every time if they’re shooting _at_ me. At least run in a straight line that isn’t collinear with the shooter’s position. Obviously, if you can find cover, put it between you and them and cover distance. It’s so, so hard for any amateur to hit a target that is moving radially in a polar coordinate system centered on them, at all. I…

A classic scene on the subject: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szcviFDt9xM

Fictional, but based on a real event.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#140
post #135

Misc info on weapon sound pressure. The Carl Gustav 8.4cm recoilless rifle now be procured by the Marines has a big back-blast through the typical venturi used by these kinds of weapons. In training, (Sweden at least) they are limited to the number of rounds they can fire. I do not know if this for merely hearing loss, or if there are concussive effects. Also, while "small arms" do not typically have concussive effec…

My money is on the breaching charges that these high speed folks use. Particularly in conjunction with the thousands and thousands of reps that folks put in practicing breaching. It's enough force to rip a reinforced door clean off the frame. Grenades are a close second but I don't think they train into the thousands with actual field grenades.

Maybe an instructor sure, but we're talking about SF here.

I don't doubt that artillery will also do this kind of damage, so I'd be curious about what the brains of field artillery folks look like.

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