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Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#131

Post by ankit219 »

dialup_sounds wrote: post #128
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #4

> “We are concerned that the interoperability requirements of the DMA could force us to compromise the integrity of our products in ways that risk user privacy and data security,” Apple said in a statement. Apart from the “security concerns” of allowing use of non Apple services it will be interesting to hear the specifics of these. I thought most AI features were being released in American English before other local…

It's pretty easy to see where they're coming from. Apple's approach to AI integration draws a pretty clear line between the part that Apple controls and takes credit/blame for privacy of (i.e. on-device models and their private cloud system) and third-parties that require specific consent to send data to (ChatGPT). If the EU decided that Apple has to allow their whole on-device and private cloud stack to be warning-l…

The problem is not just about interoperability. According to DSA, given Apple is one of the designated companies, they are responsible for security and privacy while DMA mandates that they allow for interoperability when they add functionalities. It's a fundamental conflict and requires trade off. Apple is likely waiting for the current term to be over in november and then deal with the new regime. Vestager is called a waning star, and she has been most vocal about it in recent times.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#132

Post by alwillis »

isodev wrote: post #78
vletal wrote: post #53

I do not get it. If they are really into "private cloud", "your data belongs to you", ... They should be compliant out of the box. This decreases my trust in Apple.

Apple throwing a tantrum like this doesn’t seem like a winning strategy. It’s a giant finger for devs and consumers in Europe.

It's not a tantrum; it's Apple saying to EU regulators we can't provide these features securely and privately while also while also making them DMA-compliant.

Many Apple Intelligence won't fully rollout until sometime in 2025, so there's time for the EU to decide what they want to do.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#133

Post by buildbot »

ongy wrote: post #89
happyopossum wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are legitimate concerns for user privacy with any third-party integration, including OpenAI which is why Apple asks you before sending a request to ChatGPT Right - which is why the ChatGPT integration is such a small part of the total Ai/LLM capabilities they announced, and they've loudly and publicly announced that it will support other 3rd parties in the future. Buuuuut - what happens if/when the EU decides…

Then people gain options. Some of them might be worse for privacy, but if they offer better (or cheaper, which can be a quality) features, that's up to people. If this was "the olden days", it would be a legitimate concern. But mobile OSs have long forced Apps to request permission to use various features explicitely and fall back graciously when some aren't provided. So outside security concerns that exist either wa…

It's literally a spyware API in the hands of a 3rd party - the options here for misinformed users are critically dangerous.

Recall was seen as 1st party spyware, Apple has more privacy trust and their implementation is very secure. Allowing Bob's AI screen reader to access the same total file/device access is very scary.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#134

Post by Rinzler89 »

isodev wrote: post #97
Rinzler89 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s a giant finger for devs and consumers in Europe. If EU would have a VC sector anywhere near the US or even Chinese ones, this is actually the perfect time and market opportunity for a local EU competitor to come out and launch a privacy focused smartphone that's compliant with local market regulations and also includes the AI features that Apple refuses to release out of spite. Apple only does shit like this be…

I will be more than happy to get additional alternatives. Apple is big here, but not as dominant as it is in the US. It won’t be a big deal for folks to skip an upgrade cycle or turn to Samsung, Fairphone and others.

Apple users in the EU aren't going to abandon their iPhones, ecosystem ties and AppStore purchases en masse, and move to Android or some boutique maker like Fairphone just because Apple disabled AI feature for them. A handful might but not enough to scare Apple.

Once people are tied to an ecosystem for many years, they're not just gonna abandon it without a major life inconvenience.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#135

Post by Rinzler89 »

alwillis wrote: post #132
isodev wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple throwing a tantrum like this doesn’t seem like a winning strategy. It’s a giant finger for devs and consumers in Europe.

It's not a tantrum; it's Apple saying to EU regulators we can't provide these features securely and privately while also while also making them DMA-compliant. Many Apple Intelligence won't fully rollout until sometime in 2025, so there's time for the EU to decide what they want to do.

> it's Apple saying to EU regulators we can't provide these features securely and privately

They can't, or they won't?

Just because they say they can't do something doesn't mean it's true, especially when that something can negatively affect their profits and market share, so then they weaponize it as "think of your security!".

Considering Apple's insane wealth and technical expertise, it's definitely possible, they just don't want to do it because they want things their way not the government's way, unless that government is China, then everything is suddenly technically possible. Using Chinese cloud providers for iCloud? You got it. CCP backdoors for everything? Consider it done.

So no, it's just a tantrum.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#136

Post by talldayo »

buildbot wrote: post #133
ongy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then people gain options. Some of them might be worse for privacy, but if they offer better (or cheaper, which can be a quality) features, that's up to people. If this was "the olden days", it would be a legitimate concern. But mobile OSs have long forced Apps to request permission to use various features explicitely and fall back graciously when some aren't provided. So outside security concerns that exist either wa…

It's literally a spyware API in the hands of a 3rd party - the options here for misinformed users are critically dangerous. Recall was seen as 1st party spyware, Apple has more privacy trust and their implementation is very secure. Allowing Bob's AI screen reader to access the same total file/device access is very scary.

Then maybe don't build a spyware API? It's the same problem as screen-recording; you can design it to respect user privacy and prompt the user before turning on. You don't have to make it a matter of implicit trust if you design it well, and we should expect these sorts of private data APIs to be designed well and respect our agency.

If you don't look at Recall and Apple Intelligence with the same suspicion, you're stupid. Currently they are literally the same product, rebranded and marketed to different users. Two data pipes leading to one company's pool. But Apple's pipe is safer because... they have more "privacy trust" and Twitter says their whitepaper looks secure. You're being robbed in plain daylight and defending the robber; the implications of both features are disastrous.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#137

Post by IMTDb »

lambdas wrote: post #35
e38383 wrote: post #26

I can totally understand why Apple is doing this. And I hate it. Mostly because the regulations are not technical enough to get followed within soft- and hardware. The EU is just preventing any (most, maybe just a few, but „any“ from my perspective) new (consumer) technology now.

I’d rather have to wait a while for shiny new feature, than dive head first into the unknown. We made that mistake with social media, not taking it seriously enough. I can wait a hot minute for my iPhone to summarise paragraphs whilst we try and avoid rampant, democracy breaking technology 2.0.

> I’d rather have to wait a while for shiny new feature, than dive head first into the unknown.

Is there a possible world where that is your choice and that vision is not imposed on me ? I fully respect your point of view and strongly believe you should have that option at your disposal.

But I also feel like having an AI model running on my (private) device should be an option available to me if I want to.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#138

Post by IMTDb »

timeon wrote: post #58
dmix wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also often impacts more than the EU, we still have cookie banners on websites globally because EU came up with a good-intentions idea when 3rd party tracking ad cookies were a major privacy concern. But like a lot of regulations they stick after the world changes/adapts. Now 3rd party cookies are officially dying out at the browser level and browser fingerprinting has long ago eliminated any privacy gain of cookie…

Websites that are not spying on you do not need to use cookie banner.

The European Union official website has a cookie banner (https://european-union.europa.eu/index_en), does that mean it is spying on me ? Should I be worried ? Or is the definition of "tracking cookies" so wide that even extremely innocuous websites still have to display that banner because the law is stupid ?

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" (Hanlon's razor)

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#139

Post by r00fus »

lambdas wrote: post #35
e38383 wrote: post #26

I can totally understand why Apple is doing this. And I hate it. Mostly because the regulations are not technical enough to get followed within soft- and hardware. The EU is just preventing any (most, maybe just a few, but „any“ from my perspective) new (consumer) technology now.

I’d rather have to wait a while for shiny new feature, than dive head first into the unknown. We made that mistake with social media, not taking it seriously enough. I can wait a hot minute for my iPhone to summarise paragraphs whilst we try and avoid rampant, democracy breaking technology 2.0.

You might never get it. Essentially Apple is saying they will need to negotiate with the EU to confirm they can add functionality without being found liable later on. That negotiation could end up in an impasse.

Re: Apple won't roll out AI tech in EU market over regulatory concerns

#140

Post by swat535 »

MBCook wrote: post #3

Heh. The spite wars continue. I’m sure this will earn you a lot of favor, Apple.

There is nothing spiteful here, Apple's team has done an analysis and came to the conclusion that they can't reliably rollout this feature and be compliant with the EU regulations, which is the intended purpose of the regulation in the first place.

I'm not being snarky but you should be celebrating this since it's working as intended. I think it's a healthy sign when big tech companies are forced to a take pause before releasing a feature to masses.

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