131–140 of 324 posts
I'd be curious to hear about stories of this working in the U.S., if ever.
However, I suspect that if something breaks out of warranty, you don't have a legal right to get it replaced/repaired.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In France, the "Repairability Index" was mandatory since 2021 [1, in French], and will be superseded by the "Durability Index" starting on 2025 [2, in French] [1] https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/indice-reparabilite [2] https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/indice-durabilite
Is the idea of these indices to encourage buyers to choose more repairable / durable goods? I can remember shopping for a new fridge with my parents as a kid: The energy efficiency labels (mandated by the gov't) made a big difference on their purchasing decisions.
Such a price would incentivize manufacturers to make warranties last as long as possible. This encourages repairability where it's economically and physically viable, without the tradeoffs necessary if repairability is mandated by law.
The EU gets a lot of heat for many things (and rightfully so), but this is an area where it is actually doing wonders in favor of consumers. Here is the directive adopted by the EU Council to promote the repair of broken or defective goods, also known as the right-to-repair (or R2R) directive: " The directive adopted today enshrines a new right for consumers: the right to have defective products repaired in an easier…
It shows that diversity is a good thing, you end up having to compromise no matter how rightful you feel.
MHBKD recently made a video on Apple testing lab [1], and one thing he talked about and that was kinda new to me is seeing repairability as a spectrum. I.e. on one side is "indestructible" product and on the other is "perfectly repairable". And that those properties (being hard to damage/destruct and being easy to repair) might be mutually exclusive. In a hindsight it seems obvious, still this video was the first tim…
Plenty of devices are indestructible and repairable, they're just bulky.
We've got a similar thing in New Zealand: the Consumer Guarantees Act. The people who sold the broken thing to you can either fix it, replace it, or refund you the cost of it. The decision is unfortunately up to them, so they sadly often replace things rather than fixing them. Consumer NZ is usually used as the independent source for expected product lifetimes: https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/appliance-life-expe…
15 years seems darn short for an oven. The (electric) one I have now is from the late 1960's, and perfectly functional. At church, our (gas) kitchen oven is about a century old - and the last service man we had said that it should be good for another century, if we're careful not to let it rust out.
It seems like those Samsung/LG smart appliances are constantly breaking (especially fridges)
Really it seems anything with a circuit board is more likely to break (which I suppose is somewhat intuitive given mechanical parts are fairly durable)
I disagree. I have a similar situation right now. Washing machine is leaking when load is anything bigger than light load. Initial guarantee claim to Whirlpool was sent 8 weeks ago. It's dead, no response from anyone. Under consumer rights shop should refund, but claim is without response for 3 weeks (14 calendar days is upper limit according to EU law + local regulations). Today I was supposed to contact the lawyer,…
> It's weeks of legal battle over 300€. We are not alike. As soon as it costs them several tens of billable hours (people on phone, someone making appointments, discussions, emails, lawyer doing it's thing etc) I'm all fair game and will definitely spend my time screwing with them simply to make them pay even if I lose in the end. Since I'm going to be frustrated when I'm being screwed over I see no reason not repay…
Conversations with lawyer is 1.5h, preparing documents another hour. I need to keep appliance somewhere, which is a storage cost. Average time to resolution is 8 months. I need to pay lawyer up front, and the costs are going to be returned, but this is yet another process. Initial costs are 200€ to even start, not to mention legal fees.
Even a simple form for costs reimbursement has 4 pages and based on requirements would require approximately 2h of gathering receipts, proving communication.
If I'd earn 30€/hour (and my rate is much higher), it would cost me around 600€ to get into the process. Anything outside original amount requires follow-up process so another 8 months.
Do I want to spend 2 years to get approximately 1000€ in total, during which I have not usable washing machine stuffed somewhere in my apartment? Nope.
As for "legal billable hours". Companies of specific size have lawyer on payroll. It doesn't increase the cost for them and they won't blink an eye or even notice. Facebook post will do more damage to them than above stunt, but it won't bring me anything in return.
So yes, they win, because my cost is higher than theirs. And I will stress about it, shortening my lifespan and they won't care at all.
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I recall reading a quasi-debunking of this. I didn't go down the rabbit hole far enough to understand all the details, but it seems the situation was more complicated than just corporate greed. [1] The topic has been discussed here in the past a few times, including [2] and [3] 1: https://readmedium.com/en/the-phoebus-cartel-was-never-reall... 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21596792 3: https://news.ycombinat…
I would not call any of that a debunking, even quasi. Just a different dance around the same hard-to-swallow pill. Company X makes a great product that everyone only needs one of and lasts a long time. Over time, the market starts to dwindle and. Company X is going broke. Now, Company X must either invest in innovation or reduce the lifespan of its current offering. There's nothing inherently evil about this concept,…
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It's not as good for the environment, though. Some companies like Apple try to make up for this by replacing broken devices, then refurbishing and reselling the formerly broken device.
My guess: These companies have an internal repair division that will try to sell it as "warranty repaired" later. Or, they sell it at a discount to a company that specialises in oven repairs. They will fix it, then resell it. My guess: Apple's devices are way harder to repair than your average oven or refrigerator.
At least in the U.S. this stuff tends to be called "manufacturer refurbished"
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How will moving production to low wage countries help? The importer and/or the retailer still have to comply with the law of the country they sell in. The only exception is when people buy from a foreign retailer online. However that is a problem regardless of where the retailer is as long as they are not in your country. My daughter (in the UK) currently has a problem with Boox (in the EU) refusing to replace a prod…
Did she pay with credit card? Often even debit cards offer chargeback although it is not a statutory right.
Regardless, you should still never ever buy an HP printer. Tell your friends and family.
I mean, a LaserJet 4L is still quite a decent printer today. Just don't buy an HP printer that was made in the last 25 years, and you should be fine!