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Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

cosmosmagazine.com

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Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#131

Post by sweezyjeezy »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #123
geraldwhen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If most buildings lacked light because the vast majority just echolocated, then the those unable would be disabled. It is okay for there to be a normal human experience, and define inability to participate as a disability.

> It is okay for there to be a normal human experience, and define inability to participate as a disability. That's what most people normally do, yes. Then many people out there define an "ability to enjoy hetero sex" as a "normal human experience" and therefore see gayness as a disability that needs a cure. I'm not arguing about the conclusion here, but about the method and the basis for deriving this conclusion. Th…

> doesn't follow from any law of nature

Natural selection gave us hearing.

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#132

Post by glenstein »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #104
stahtops wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t attempt to “fix” anyone. Everyone has to do that themselves. What about the deaf people that don’t enjoy their life as it is and do welcome the opportunity to hear?

> What about the deaf people that don’t enjoy their life as it is and do welcome the opportunity to hear? I would be happy if they had such an opportunity. The question, once again, was different: should the hereditary deafness be eradicated in childhood by gene therapy once advances of medicine allow that?

I think you changed the question and escalated the severity of the proposal so it became easier to knock down as a straw man.

Originally this was about the desirability and capability of enabling deaf people to hear writ large. But now you are framing it as full scale eradication carried out in a way that bypasses consent.

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#133

Post by alexey-salmin »

PierceJoy wrote: post #128
alexey-salmin wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of vertebrates (including human's ancestors) lost the 6th sense of electric fields in process of the evolution. Apparently 6 is not always better than 5 from the nature's point of view. Moles went further to loose sight as well.

> Most of vertebrates (including human's ancestors) lost the 6th sense of electric fields in process of the evolution. Human ancestors are not human. Also, the ancestor you are referring to was a fish, and could only sense electric fields under water. Why would the ability to sense electric fields under water be an evolutionary advantage for humans who don't live in water? If it's not an evolutionary advantage, then…

No, I'm not wrong, I just don't like relying on "obvious" statements like "5 senses are better than 4". We can't know for sure what was "better" until the human race experiment is finished (and then we won't know either obviously).

Consider this: hereditary autoimmune diseases are usually seen as a disadvantage. However they were a huge advantage during the bubonic plague in Europe, increasing the chances of survival by estimated 40% [1]

If we manage to eradicate these disadvantageous genes we may not survive the next pandemic. I don't have the knowledge to predict whether deafness genes or some other property entangled with them will be advantageous 10000 years from now and neither do you. That's all. Now you can enjoy listening to music all you like, it's just beyond the point.

[1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-bla...

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#134

Post by alexey-salmin »

sweezyjeezy wrote: post #131
alexey-salmin wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is okay for there to be a normal human experience, and define inability to participate as a disability. That's what most people normally do, yes. Then many people out there define an "ability to enjoy hetero sex" as a "normal human experience" and therefore see gayness as a disability that needs a cure. I'm not arguing about the conclusion here, but about the method and the basis for deriving this conclusion. Th…

> doesn't follow from any law of nature Natural selection gave us hearing.

Right, and it also gave us a strong desire for the opposite sex. So if you draw the line based on this principle then gayness and deafness will fall on the same side of this line, whichever side it is.

Hence I write that the initial comment making the distinction between gayness being obviously OK and deafness being obviously not OK, look arbitrary to me. This division is cultural.

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#135

Post by Almondsetat »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #39
dyauspitr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t wait for a geneCAD where we for example, design wings for a human body and then it works out the rest and generates a CRISPR based AAV that you can inject yourself with. True race and sex changes too. Hopefully in the next 50 years but that’s wishful thinking.

Let's try to fix the world's vast number of actual, boring health problems before trying to add the equivalent of spoilers and chrome-plated hubcaps to perfectly healthy human bodies.

Has there been any cases of this happening for other technologies?

That's like saying "now that we invented canals let's try to fix the world's irrigation problems before making fountains and water parks"

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#136

Post by Almondsetat »

gurumeditations wrote: post #118
akoboldfrying wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's try to fix the world's vast number of actual, boring health problems before trying to add the equivalent of spoilers and chrome-plated hubcaps to perfectly healthy human bodies.

Sex changes/gender transitions is an actual boring health problem. The inability to assume the correct gender for a trans person often leads to social rejection, violence, poverty, prostitution, murder, and suicide.

If through gene editing you could also erase someone's disphoria what option would you choose?

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#137

Post by herodoturtle »

deepGem wrote: post #120

"The children involved in the study were born with DFNB9, which accounts for between 2 and 8% of hereditary deafness. It is caused by mutations in the OTOF gene which prevent the production of functioning otoferlin protein, which can significantly reduce sound transmission from the inner ear hair cells to hearing nerves." Just shows how much of our body functions we take for granted. Every function has a critical pat…

Poignant observation (that we take so much of our bodily function for granted), thank you for adding this to the commentary on this page.

And that resilience-with-fragility you speak of instantly reminded me of our giant cloud clusters, with their tiny points of failure that test the limits of redundancy.

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#138

Post by PierceJoy »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #133
PierceJoy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of vertebrates (including human's ancestors) lost the 6th sense of electric fields in process of the evolution. Human ancestors are not human. Also, the ancestor you are referring to was a fish, and could only sense electric fields under water. Why would the ability to sense electric fields under water be an evolutionary advantage for humans who don't live in water? If it's not an evolutionary advantage, then…

No, I'm not wrong, I just don't like relying on "obvious" statements like "5 senses are better than 4". We can't know for sure what was "better" until the human race experiment is finished (and then we won't know either obviously). Consider this: hereditary autoimmune diseases are usually seen as a disadvantage. However they were a huge advantage during the bubonic plague in Europe, increasing the chances of survival…

Hereditary autoimmune diseases are not a sense, and are irrelevant to this discussion about whether hearing is an objective advantage or not.

I’ll ask again, since you must have missed this question: is a deaf person, all else equal, more likely or less likely to survive and procreate relative to a hearing person?

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#139

Post by wouldbecouldbe »

Almondsetat wrote: post #136
gurumeditations wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex changes/gender transitions is an actual boring health problem. The inability to assume the correct gender for a trans person often leads to social rejection, violence, poverty, prostitution, murder, and suicide.

If through gene editing you could also erase someone's disphoria what option would you choose?

That’s like trying to cure depression by getting rich. It hardly ever works

Re: Gene therapy restores hearing to children with inherited deafness

#140

Post by abdulhaq »

LoganDark wrote: post #92
telesilla wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make sure to read Daniel Dennett before you change too much, you might forget who you are and become someone else entirely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat

I have Dissociative Identity Disorder, so I already become someone else all the time... In all seriousness, at times I do genuinely wish species transition were possible. Imagine gender dysphoria but for species, so species dysphoria. It may sound insane, but honestly so can the entire concept of dissociative identities. I don't know if I'd want to change my brain, but the physical properties of the body definitely.…

you are what you are, there's no escape from that
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