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The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

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Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#131

Post by ZeroGravitas »

mortify wrote: post #122
recursive wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you get people to only charge their cars when it's windy? Market prices and "smart" chargers

That can encourage it, but people will need to charge even when it's not windy. Having a smart charger wait for cheap electricity which may never come is a great way to end up with dead battery.

Smart chargers can predict weather, demand, carbon, price for the coming hours, they don't need to be entirely reactive.

There's various APIs you can check to see these predictions

https://docs.watttime.org/

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#132

Post by pyrale »

rgmerk wrote: post #37
pyrale wrote: post #4

These ‘grid enhancing technologies’ look like cheap fixes that can only buy some time before real work is needed. Sure, with better monitoring and some overload management systems you may work closer to some limits, but that’s not a solution for long-term usage increases. Where I work, they are used a lot to adjust for renewables power surges, not to increase transit. The bit about automaticaly shifting power to othe…

Sure, I get there’s only so much that get squeezed out of existing lines without any physical infrastructure changes. But reconductoring seems like it buys you a lot of extra capacity over the existing physical right of way, and if you use advanced conductors you don’t even have to replace the towers if they’re in good condition. Yes, you have to replace a lot of equipment at substations, but my understanding is that…

Getting permit is hard, but not costly. That being said, if the issue is really just red tape, you make a good point.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#133

Post by pyrale »

hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #23

EDIT: Where I live, there is mostly 69 kV and 138 kV, with only a few 345 kV lines. There aren't nearly enough 500 kV lines, and 765 kV aren't present in the region. EDIT2: Here's what a 765 kV line looks like: https://maps.app.goo.gl/3fV1hFuQmpq3hVNx5 Map of US electric grid: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=d409... Real wiring is dominated by current, resistance of the conductor, and cooling.…

Any reason there are 3 pylons for one line? I think it's the first time I see each phase having their own pylon.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#134

Post by dubcanada »

bsder wrote: post #120
adrianN wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had enough storage you could just build more renewables and produce the power at lower cost.

Repeat after me: Renewables can't do base load. Renewables can't do base load. Renewables can't do base load. If you have enough storage, you don't have to adapt your reactor second by second. You let the storage buffer out the peaks and valleys and you use the reactor to backfill the storage over the course of hours and days.

Hydro can do base load. Hydro is considered a renewable.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#135

Post by pyrale »

aidenn0 wrote: post #104
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #23

EDIT: Where I live, there is mostly 69 kV and 138 kV, with only a few 345 kV lines. There aren't nearly enough 500 kV lines, and 765 kV aren't present in the region. EDIT2: Here's what a 765 kV line looks like: https://maps.app.goo.gl/3fV1hFuQmpq3hVNx5 Map of US electric grid: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=d409... Real wiring is dominated by current, resistance of the conductor, and cooling.…

At what point does HVDC start to make sense? IGBTs have only gotten better and cheaper since I first read about HVDC, so it seems like the fixed conversion costs ought to have come way down.

HVDC is needed when you build between two non-synchronous areas like France and UK. Also if you don't have the option to build pylons and need to go underground/underseas, AC lines will suffer from capacitive load. the longer the line gets, the more capacitive load will be present, and so you can't build very long underground/underseas AC lines.

Since HVDC has significant fixed costs, it's not relevant for shorter lines.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#136

Post by pyrale »

bsder wrote: post #103
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #23

EDIT: Where I live, there is mostly 69 kV and 138 kV, with only a few 345 kV lines. There aren't nearly enough 500 kV lines, and 765 kV aren't present in the region. EDIT2: Here's what a 765 kV line looks like: https://maps.app.goo.gl/3fV1hFuQmpq3hVNx5 Map of US electric grid: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?layers=d409... Real wiring is dominated by current, resistance of the conductor, and cooling.…

Is there any reason we can't repurpose these lines for HVDC? It seems like we could get quite a bit of extra juice by changing to DC transmission.

Same reason you don't repurpose a train into an airplane, the two have different benefits and drawbacks, and are used for different purposes.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#137

Post by pyrale »

adrianN wrote: post #116
tomrod wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marginal versus average cost. Extremely low marginal cost (cost of the next unit to produce) but extraordinarily high average cost (includes capex). You typically make decisions for profit maximization on marginal cost.

You can ignore capex if borrowed money is literally free, which historically happens very rarely.

You can safely ignore capex once the plant is built, though. Because nobody is going to give you the money back. And so, after the plant is built, the only relevant optimization parameter left is marginal cost.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#138

Post by algo_trader »

pyrale wrote: post #135
aidenn0 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point does HVDC start to make sense? IGBTs have only gotten better and cheaper since I first read about HVDC, so it seems like the fixed conversion costs ought to have come way down.

HVDC is needed when you build between two non-synchronous areas like France and UK. Also if you don't have the option to build pylons and need to go underground/underseas, AC lines will suffer from capacitive load. the longer the line gets, the more capacitive load will be present, and so you can't build very long underground/underseas AC lines. Since HVDC has significant fixed costs, it's not relevant for shorter li…

Are DC costs more manageable at medium voltages?

If i really wanted 11kV MVDC is this a feasible spec for an industrial site?

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#139

Post by smeej »

tedivm wrote: post #80
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

This just isn't true. The burden on nuclear is the extremely long construction time and massive cost overruns.

But New Hampshire already has the plant built. That cost already happened. The question now is how best to meet the energy demand with the resources available, and that's already available.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#140

Post by smeej »

esalman wrote: post #74
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

Surely there are more useful avenues for harnessing excess energy than mining Bitcoins?

I don't know if there are as any that are as easy to acquire and set up without major infrastructure projects.
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