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Roman Roads (2017)

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Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only dead straight main road out of London runs very close to my house. It was the Roman military road out London and ran for a couple of hundred miles. In Saxon times it was called Watling Street.

I assume this is the A5? That's very cool, I always thought it was odd how straight it is.

[deleted]

Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#132
post #47

Pretty cool. My parents grew up in small villages that are adjacent to one of these ancient roads (via Tiburtina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Tiburtina ) and the road basically still exists as a modern road. I remember driving near Pescara with my parents in the 1990s--they had not been back to Italy in 35+ years and they were trying to find their way back to their home towns. We stopped the car on the side of…

The only dead straight main road out of London runs very close to my house. It was the Roman military road out London and ran for a couple of hundred miles. In Saxon times it was called Watling Street.

That's not the only one. A10 from Shoreditch to Hertfordshire is dead straight and follows the route of Ermine Street, the Roman road from London to York.

Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#135
post #47

Pretty cool. My parents grew up in small villages that are adjacent to one of these ancient roads (via Tiburtina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Tiburtina ) and the road basically still exists as a modern road. I remember driving near Pescara with my parents in the 1990s--they had not been back to Italy in 35+ years and they were trying to find their way back to their home towns. We stopped the car on the side of…

The only dead straight main road out of London runs very close to my house. It was the Roman military road out London and ran for a couple of hundred miles. In Saxon times it was called Watling Street.

Ha, funny - we visited London for a week last autumn and stayed in Kilburn near the old Paddington cemetery, and every time we took the bus into the city I found it strange how straight that road was.

Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#136
If you want to cause controversy and stir up some trouble in the ancient history community there's nothing like the topic of Roman roads. I didn't realize it until reading up on the subject. There seems to be two camps the "ancient aliens" type who argue Roman roads were built and lasted 2,000 years vs the roads were continually repaired over 2,000 years just like any other road.

Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#137
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Roman roads wouldn’t be pleasant to drive on at all. Sure, but that was not my point. > Also the Romans certainly must have been more obsessed by profit than us? I don't know, I wouldn't say "certainly". I am not really sure how one can be more obsessed by profit than us. We literally care more about profit (GNI) than our survival (climate change, energy crisis, biodiversity crisis). > They state was built on s…

> Sure, but that was not my point So it’s a bit of an apples and oranges comparison because they serve very different purposes? > We literally care more about profit (GNI) than our survival (climate change, energy crisis, biodiversity crisis). So a bit like the Romans who weren’t particularly concerned about severe deforestation, soil erosion and related issues in addition to the extinction of multiple species ( http…

> So it’s a bit of an apples and oranges comparison because they serve very different purposes?

My point was that we could make extra-solid roads. But that would be more difficult and hence more costly. I did not mean that there is a conspiracy; it's just a system. I did not even say it's worse; it's different.

> So a bit like the Romans

You're turning it around. You said "the Romans were certainly more [...]" and I said "hmm I can't imagine being more [...] than us". So yeah, maybe they didn't give a shit, and we don't give a shit. Which is compatible with what I said (but not with what you said, which is that it was "certainly not similar").

> They pretty much did.

So you mean that from the start population of Rome to the empire around the Mediterranean Sea, they systematically enslaved everyone they encountered? So like 99.999% of the population were slaves, and the only non-slaves were the descendants of the people of the original Rome?

> What makes you say that?

The fact that you think that they enslaved "all the people they came into contact with". Romanization was more elaborate than just enslaving everybody.

> Both of our claims were quite hyperbolical..

I mean mine. Our society optimizes for the GNI, at the very real risk of causing global instability, famines, mass extinction, etc before the end of our lives. For a ton of people, it means their very survival.

Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#138
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Roman roads wouldn’t be pleasant to drive on at all. Sure, but that was not my point. > Also the Romans certainly must have been more obsessed by profit than us? I don't know, I wouldn't say "certainly". I am not really sure how one can be more obsessed by profit than us. We literally care more about profit (GNI) than our survival (climate change, energy crisis, biodiversity crisis). > They state was built on s…

> You don't really know how Rome worked, do you? Because they had slaves does not mean they enslaved "all the people they came into contact with". The Roman society is actually super interesting when you look into it They certainly enslaved a hell of a lot of them. Like everyone else, they had good points and bad points but they were pretty far from a meritocratic democracy as we would think of the terms today.

They did enslave people, that's for sure. Just not "all the people they came into contact with".

Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#139
post #47

Pretty cool. My parents grew up in small villages that are adjacent to one of these ancient roads (via Tiburtina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Tiburtina ) and the road basically still exists as a modern road. I remember driving near Pescara with my parents in the 1990s--they had not been back to Italy in 35+ years and they were trying to find their way back to their home towns. We stopped the car on the side of…

I knew someone at school who got a summer job identifying lost native trails. The government wanted to resurrect them as modern trails. The result: basically every trail would have been down the middle of a divided highway or along a railway track. It turns out that native people's then didn't like walking up and down hills anymore than cars and trains do today. The project was axed.

Re: Roman Roads (2017)

#140
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some examples of automatic layout in this style: - M. Nöllenburg: Automated Drawings of Metro Maps, 2005. We've used that a while ago to render a few pretty images with our graph visualization library, but runtime is prohibitive (along with the requirement of a fast ILP solver). - LOOM: https://github.com/ad-freiburg/loom and https://loom.cs.uni-freiburg.de/global

Wow, cool. Thanks for sharing! I hope someone builds a web version of Mini Metro with this on top of OSM.

An example of Tokyo can be found here:

https://loom.cs.uni-freiburg.de/global#subway-lightrail/octi...

Schematization took around 2 minutes according to the statistics, it really doesn't look that bad.

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