85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics • Hacker News Board

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#131

Post by londons_explore » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:33 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #93

Aunche wrote: post #47

It's not sexy, but the number one way to reduce plastic pollution is to build landfills and proper waste management systems in developing countries. Plastic bans are largely performative and often counterproductive. Instead of bringing their own bags, a lot of shoppers just treat the "reuseable" bags the they buy a the supermarket as disposable. https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2024/01/22/new-j... https://…

I’m curious what bags would need to cost to change that behaviour, as for all the complaining about inflation, many clearly don’t miss 3-4% a shop buying cloth bags here.

I think bags would have to cost $10-$20 before the most people started remembering to bring one to the shop.

People simply don't think far enough ahead to plan to take a bag to the shop, and prefer to 'pay for convenience'.

Plenty of people pay $30 to avoid having to turn their oven on to cook something.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#132

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:33 PM UTC

Fuck that. Journalists had to go to the far east to film plastic laden rivers in order to shape public opinion. It isn't our problem. Now if you're going to accuse us of just exporting our waste then that might be true. In that case we should stop the recycling scam and just burn it like we do with all other oil.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#133

Post by lxgr » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:33 PM UTC

blackle wrote: post #42

AlexandrB wrote: post #14

I'll admit I was a little skeptical of plastic bag bans here in Canada, but it's had a noticeable effect on how much random garbage ends up stuck in hedges and fences where I live. Adapting to it wasn't too bad and good reusable bags are a lot more ergonomic and don't tear as easily when carrying heavy loads.

I fully agree, however if you're the kind of person who orders groceries, then what ends up happening is that you start collecting reusable bags that you have no way of reusing. I hope that someone starts some kind of "reusable bag recycling" system so I can give the scores of bags I have to a good home

If the bags are actually reusable, it doesn't seem very hard to coordinate to have the delivery person pick up the last delivery's bags next time they're at your house.

For home grocery delivery, I could imagine that using stackable or collapsible crates or similar containers might even make more sense, assuming the delivery is via car/truck. Why stick to a container optimized for walk-out customers at all?

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#134

Post by lokar » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:34 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #82

Can anyone explain to me how this works in practice? Eg if i now buy meat or cheese or pre-cut vegetables or bread at the supermarket, it’s in plastic packaging. What do legislators propose we replace that by? I understand (and use) reusable shopping bags but keeping sliced ham fresh sounds less practical. For clarity, I’m not skeptical, I’m all for the strictest plastic ban that’s remotely practical. But I don’t get…

People bought all of these things before plastics.

When I get meat it tends to come wrapped in (waxed?) paper.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#135

Post by ars » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:34 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #83

ars wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use foil instead of cling wrap? And you do this for environmental reasons? I'm struggling to understand here, why in the world would you do that? Foil consumes thousands of times more resources than plastic wrap.

thousands, really? that seems unlikely; it certainly isn't thousands of times cheaper

I guess I exaggerated.

Plastic wrap: $1.97/200sf = $0.00985

Foil: $3.78/75sf = $0.05040

Looks like it's a bit over 5 times as much.

However used foil can't be recycled, while used plastic wrap can be burned for energy. But that depends on the disposal options you have available locally.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#136

Post by bagels » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:35 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128

bagels wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an inconvenience to actually reuse the bag that is inevitably covered in rancid meat juice. Calling people idiots isn't constructive, and besides, one may not be an idiot for simply not caring about burying a few plastic bags in the landfill. It's just different judgements about what's important.

> an inconvenience to actually reuse the bag that is inevitably covered in rancid meat juice Why do you have rancid meat juice in your grocery bag!? Why do you have rancid meat! > not caring about burying a few plastic bags in the landfill I don’t particularly care about this. I still have a couple reusable bags in the back of my car that I use to transport food from the grocery store home. (I never have to deal with…

You've never had a package of meat leak a little juice in to the grocery bag? If you have, you either wash it (inconvenient) or you have rancid meat juice if you don't (it doesn't start rancid).

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#137

Post by com2kid » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:35 PM UTC

Carrok wrote: post #115

com2kid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly it looks like DeliveryZero is still using plastic. :( I'd really love to see some companies using non-plastic takeout containers, especially for hot foods. But even with cold foods, every study that has come out has shown microplastic shedding even from water bottles.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Could it be better? Absolutely. Is it a great starting point? Absolutely.

Ugh I've been to other countries that have such bougie takeout containers, the shit we have here in the US is insufferable by comparison.

It is funny, sometimes a new Chinese restaurant HQ'd in China will open up locally, and they'll start off using the same high quality takeout containers that are used in China, including such things as every order comes in an insulated bag (!!) but eventually they bow to economies of scale and adopt the same shit takeout containers everyone else uses in the US.

Bleck.

I always think of when I went to Beijing, ordered a fruit soda, and they took out a real glass bottle, filled it up, sealed it, and gave it to me! 100% premo feeling.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#138

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:35 PM UTC

eitally wrote: post #78

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #3

Is there a good substitute for cling wrap? I mostly store food in reusable containers. And I try to use foil as much as possible. But some things are irregularly shaped and need a tight seal, and I’ve struggled to find a good alternative.

We keep a roll of plastic wrap in the drawer for the rare times it's actually necessary, but we've had good luck with the combo of two things: 1) pyrex containers with silicone replacement lids, and 2) stretchy silicone lids[1] for other containers (or directly on the ends of things like half-cucumbers or melons). We haven't found very many common use cases where cling wrap is actually necessary, but it's non-zero. I…

For freezing things, the ziplock bags are definitely hard to find an alternative for me as well.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#139

Post by dumbo-octopus » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:35 PM UTC

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #129

londons_explore wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poorer parts of the world have (typically) much worse problems with litter. Poorer nations typically have no/few refuse collection services, and people often just pile up and burn their own refuse or dump it in rivers to take it away. That means poorer people see directly the litter rather than an 'out of sight, out of mind' approach.

> Poorer nations typically have no/few refuse collection services, and people often just pile up and burn their own refuse or dump it in rivers to take it away. Would it not make sense then if they had a container with which to collect and responsibly dispose of the refuse? A plastic bag perhaps?

They have to put the bag somewhere. Paying for a guy to come around and haul your garbage away every week to be responsibly disposed in a secure landfill is laughably out of budget for a huge chunk of the world population.

Re: 85% of People Want Global Ban on Single-Use Plastics

#140

Post by lxgr » Wed, Jun 05, 2024, 7:35 PM UTC

lokar wrote: post #121

zeeveener wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, one of our grocery chains has "Compostable Bags" which they package the "Pickup / Delivery" orders in. My area also mandates municipal composting so the discussion of "But is it _really_ compostable" is moot.

It does not matter much how they do in a landfill. What matters is what happens when left out in the environment, aiui they weather and breakdown pretty fast.

Anything that ends up either in a landfill or in the environment (fwiw landfills are usually part of the environment, but that's a different discussion) is something that doesn't get to amortize production costs over several uses, so arguably both are best to be avoided, if at all possible.