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I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

awesomekling.substack.com

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Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#131

Post by pjlegato »

prox wrote: post #29
HeckFeck wrote: post #25

I fully respect these reasons, they are logical and well said. But hopefully interest in SerenityOS doesn't taper off due to this. Kling was great at garnering interest with his YouTube videos where he'd go deep into bug fixing and feature development. Certainly, the browser has the most potential and even immediate necessity for the sake of the open Web, but I would still like to daily drive SerenityOS some day. Its…

Oh yes, a MacOS like design but open with Unix, that would be amazing!

MacOS is Unix -- a BSD-derived Unix operating system called "Darwin" underlies the user interface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#132

Post by isr »

packetlost wrote: post #117
M95D wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux (kernel I mean) is good enough. There were some scheduling problems with audio, but it's mostly resolved. The problem is GNU style. We need another GUI and that doesn't mean just replacing X with/or Wayland protocol. It means replacing GTK and QT too.

Isn't that basically ElementaryOS? Or is that not a group up rewrite?

Not really. Pantheon, elementary's desktop environment, is forked from gnome. So in that sense, it's very much a traditional linux desktop distro (not to belittle it, as they have put in a lot of worthwhile work into pantheon & the assorted apps)

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#133

Post by nacs »

worble wrote: post #71
nacs wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Firefox user, this exactly. The amount of things that now need to be toggled off on a new install are approaching Windows “telemetry” levels: disable sponsored shortcuts on homepage, disable experimental “Studies”, sponsored suggestions in search bar, “suggested extensions”, Pocket, and the list goes on. I really need to look into a privacy friendly fork of FF..

I don't use it myself, but Librewolf is a pretty popular fork that attempts to be private out of the box and is usually updated pretty quickly.

Thanks. Finally got around to installing Librewolf and it works great.

Sensible defaults as Firefox should be.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#134

Post by packetlost »

isr wrote: post #132
packetlost wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that basically ElementaryOS? Or is that not a group up rewrite?

Not really. Pantheon, elementary's desktop environment, is forked from gnome. So in that sense, it's very much a traditional linux desktop distro (not to belittle it, as they have put in a lot of worthwhile work into pantheon & the assorted apps)

Ah, I thought it was it's own thing. Oh well. I do think we're due for a commercial desktop Linux distro. Yes I think it should be paid. Something needs to take the place of Windows that isn't tied to specific hardware (MacOS) because Windows is getting unusable.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#135

Post by stuaxo »

nextaccountic wrote: post #5

> Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped. Why dropping the SerenityOS target?? Does this mean that SerenityOS's Ladybird will need to continually pull patches from the new Ladybird project in order to keep development? Also: is it really a fork if the new project gets to keep the name "Ladybird"? Will SerenityOS's browser need to be renamed, or there will be two diverging Ladybird proj…

SerenityOS already has Ports directory for 3rd party software, I guess ladybirds will go there.

I'd say ladybird moving out is a big incentive to get a packaging system up and running.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#136

Post by adamrt »

doublerabbit wrote: post #97
rafram wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FreeBSD once peaked at a 0.01% desktop market share. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...

So? You should still develop for. Why? For this whole reason. What does it matter? You should target all audiences. Why not?

> You should target all audiences.

Here is a list of OSes[0]. Where do you draw the line on supporting these? Should every new project try to support all of these? Do you, doublerabbit, get to decide which OSes are important enough for support?

Or do you think the person who created the project and does all the work should be able to decide where to spend their free time?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operating_systems

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#137

Post by stuaxo »

awesomekling wrote: post #56
zadler wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that it dropped serenity as a target, it does seem there is something more to this story…

There really isn't anything more to it. :) By dropping SerenityOS as a target, Ladybird is free to make use of 3rd party libraries that don't currently work on SerenityOS. And keep in mind, SerenityOS would be unable to integrate Ladybird in this new state anyway, since SerenityOS has a strict "no 3rd party code" policy. (Also nice: it stops being necessary to wait 30+ minutes for multiple CI runs on SerenityOS every…

It does have ports though, so for people who want ladybird there is a route to running it.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#138

Post by safety1st »

HeckFeck wrote: post #25

I fully respect these reasons, they are logical and well said. But hopefully interest in SerenityOS doesn't taper off due to this. Kling was great at garnering interest with his YouTube videos where he'd go deep into bug fixing and feature development. Certainly, the browser has the most potential and even immediate necessity for the sake of the open Web, but I would still like to daily drive SerenityOS some day. Its…

People talk about Linux as if it's a monolithic OS and one team in some OS team sport. It's not. It's a kernel.

We've got lots of OSes built on top of that kernel: ChromeOS, Android, and all the distros that are largely different flavors of a GNU/GPL'ed user space, including Fedora, SteamOS etc.

This is fine. If you want a new OS with a "holistic" user space, well Linux is probably the easiest kernel to build it on, but you can't count on it being as free as the GNU user space, because it's still going to be expensive as hell to build, and whoever does it is going to want to recoup their investment many times over.

I think the chance that the GNU user space ever morphs into a "holistic" consumer operating system is basically zero due to how it's licensed, and the key is to understand that this is both fine and necessary.

If you want some other kind of more consumer friendly user space... I guess that starts with convincing some VCs they can make money off of it. They are not going to fund it out of the kindness of their hearts.

Personally I lost interest in consumer operating systems that are designed to limit freedom for the sake of profit, and became an exclusive Debian/Ubuntu/Mint user long ago. If you can be a programmer you can run these operating systems. The tradeoff is you lose the "holistic" and you gain freedom. The two are fundamentally incompatible I'd say so you have to make your choice.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#139

Post by f1refly »

lukan wrote: post #115
M95D wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux (kernel I mean) is good enough. There were some scheduling problems with audio, but it's mostly resolved. The problem is GNU style. We need another GUI and that doesn't mean just replacing X with/or Wayland protocol. It means replacing GTK and QT too.

ChromeOS seems very polished under the hood. It is fast and open source. But very tightly integrated into google and so I doubt, this will ever become a solid base for a new linux desktop.

Chromeos under the hood is just Linux

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#140

Post by dexwiz »

prox wrote: post #29
HeckFeck wrote: post #25

I fully respect these reasons, they are logical and well said. But hopefully interest in SerenityOS doesn't taper off due to this. Kling was great at garnering interest with his YouTube videos where he'd go deep into bug fixing and feature development. Certainly, the browser has the most potential and even immediate necessity for the sake of the open Web, but I would still like to daily drive SerenityOS some day. Its…

Oh yes, a MacOS like design but open with Unix, that would be amazing!

MacOS is only as good as its hardware integration. Lifting and shifting MacOS UX to another system would only be skin deep. Much of the simplicity (and ire to many technical users) of MacOS is because its deep vertical integration.
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