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How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

fortune.com

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Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#131

Post by morsch »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #110
Denvercoder9 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economies of scale you get by packing people in larger vehicles mostly have to do with the cost of fuel and staffing. Trains (and train-like options such as metros) are vastly more efficient than cars in number of people moved per unit of time per area used. That might not be a big deal in suburbia, but in dense inner cities it's one of the most important drivers of public transport.

Autonomous vehicles could chain up or drive really close together and achieve similar space efficiency. Also, if you look at a train track. It's mostly empty space with a train passing occasionally. Very different than a well used road. And autonomous vehicles could collaborate to counter any congestion. What makes trains efficient has more to do with the cost of energy and drivers than anything else. Both of those g…

Urban train tracks see more than occasional traffic, whatever that means. And those trains often carry hundreds of people. Meanwhile, a well used road is well used by huge vehicles carrying 1.2 pax on average.

And energy isn't free. If we had any intention of becoming net zero, electricity prices had better increase. And driving around 2t empty weight isn't the way to get there.

Incidentally, a trip that's less than 1 kWh (so, less than 6 km) is a trip that could easily be made on foot or by bike.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#132

Post by pyrale »

paganel wrote: post #119
spiderice wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have kids and don't like Taxis, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your take. The idea of a humanless Taxi showing up to my house sounds way more appealing to me. I can take my time to get car seats in and kids buckled, without feeling the pressure to hurry from the human driver. I don't have to feel like my kids misbehaving are going to annoy a human driver, or get me a bad review in Uber/Lyft. I don't have to…

How do you make sure there isn’t human semen or worse on the seats on which you and your children will sit? At least with taxis driven by humans you knew that there was someone making sure that won’t happen that often, but with driverless taxis all bets are off.

Well, how will taxi-sex enjoyers make sure that no toddler vomited on the seat they intend to frolic on?

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#133

Post by ar0 »

codexb wrote: post #55
jseliger wrote: post #3

I just left a version of this in another thread—I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time, crash rates plummet, and these kinds of articles come to resemble articles from 1910 about horse-related problems. Humans suck at driving: https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/16/maybe-cars-are-just-reall... Waymos avoid many…

Maybe if you're under 25 and have always lived in a dense city this seems like a valid take. Taxis aren't new, they have always existed. Just because they're driven by computers now isn't going to magically change all the reasons that people didn't use them before (hint: it wasn't because they were driven by humans). No one with kids wants to ride in taxis with kids all the time. Ditto for anyone with hobbies that re…

I don’t know… I think a very big reason why people don’t take taxis is because they are very expensive especially for longer rides. This seems like a thing robo taxis might change. If the driver goes away, they shouldn’t be much more expensive than e.g. car rentals.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#134

Post by simion314 »

threeseed wrote: post #68
1oooqooq wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's cool. until it's not. it's very easy to release an upgrade of stopping less on stop signs and see data increasing profit and not increasing accidents. same with code updates that will make cyclist life worse, unless there's actual change in a kpi they track. you're not really their main concern, specially after they ipo and get acquired by Apollo or billionaire du jour

Waymo is a subsidiary of Alphabet. And not sure why you think running stop signs or any anti safety measures would increase profits.

>And not sure why you think running stop signs or any anti safety measures would increase profits.

Because this big companies like Google are actually evil. As an example the mobile YouTube app does not let you use it if you turn off the screen. So Google decided that wasting energy and killing batteries is an acceptable thing to do, this is pure evil - I would accept they adding more advertising or whatever but killing the life span of a device and wasting energy is truly evil shit.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#135

Post by bagels »

ok_dad wrote: post #104
bagels wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers can stare right at you as they run you over. Believing you have eye contact does not prevent you from being run over.

> like a driver looking at you in the face and waving your reading comprehension sucks

Maybe sometimes, but not this time.

"With a human I can look at their face to see that they see me."

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#136

Post by andyjohnson0 »

jseliger wrote: post #3

I just left a version of this in another thread—I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time, crash rates plummet, and these kinds of articles come to resemble articles from 1910 about horse-related problems. Humans suck at driving: https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/16/maybe-cars-are-just-reall... Waymos avoid many…

> I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time

I live in a big city (larger population than Phoenix) in the Uk and I've never even seen a self-driving car. Anywhere. I don't even think such a thing exists on public roads in my country. That Gibson quote about the future not being evenly distributed, etc.

Just a data-point.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#137

Post by xandrius »

jajko wrote: post #114
spiderice wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have kids and don't like Taxis, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your take. The idea of a humanless Taxi showing up to my house sounds way more appealing to me. I can take my time to get car seats in and kids buckled, without feeling the pressure to hurry from the human driver. I don't have to feel like my kids misbehaving are going to annoy a human driver, or get me a bad review in Uber/Lyft. I don't have to…

If you have smaller kids, most taxi rides are completely illegal in any western country and very dangerous for kids. Ever saw a taxi with 2 spare child seats or at least boosters? They are required by law for very good reasons, and those reasons are kids dying or ending up crippled even in relatively mild crashes. That's just one tiny example out of sea of examples.

A quick search online shows that your statement is misinformation, taxis can be exempted in many "western" countries.

Before making such bold claims, you've got to know a little tiny bit of the topic or at least look it up to make sure.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#138

Post by BillyTheKing »

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #57
harmmonica wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said this on HN before as well, but I've turned into a full-on Waymo evangelist (Los Angeles user here). Couple of things to add to Jake's comment... The driving experience itself is on par with the "best" drivers I've ever ridden with (things like stopping at actual stop signs, for instance, and not racing from one traffic light to the next, and being courteous to bikes and pedestrians), not to mention just the…

Honest question out of curiosity, since you seem genuine and open to discussion… I agree with all of your points about Waymo vs. Uber-like ridesharing—the average Uber ride is so much less safe that it’s hard to argue for. But I also agree with your aside about the growing isolation of society—the longer term implications of every event, meal, and errand being separated by autonomous journeys are staggering. So the q…

I can spend more times at my friend's place, maybe have a beer or two without having to worry about driving back - so I think it encourages socialisation

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#139

Post by drozycki »

thih9 wrote: post #101

Are multi passenger trips the next step? That is, driverless buses? And ones solving the traveling salesman problem with each new stop? If yes, perhaps cities with fewer cars can skip the taxi step and go straight to smart buses.

I've long hoped for Uber to roll out on-demand door-to-door UberPool with 14 passenger vans. They could match riders to drivers and find the optimal route in real time, with pricing and travel time falling between public transit and UberX, all in the footprint of a F-150.

No need to wait for autonomy. They have (had?) such a service in Cairo, but unlicensed jitney vans were already common there. They never launched it elsewhere.

Re: How Waymo outlasted the competition and made robo-taxis a real business

#140

Post by soco »

codexb wrote: post #55
jseliger wrote: post #3

I just left a version of this in another thread—I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time, crash rates plummet, and these kinds of articles come to resemble articles from 1910 about horse-related problems. Humans suck at driving: https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/16/maybe-cars-are-just-reall... Waymos avoid many…

Maybe if you're under 25 and have always lived in a dense city this seems like a valid take. Taxis aren't new, they have always existed. Just because they're driven by computers now isn't going to magically change all the reasons that people didn't use them before (hint: it wasn't because they were driven by humans). No one with kids wants to ride in taxis with kids all the time. Ditto for anyone with hobbies that re…

All these examples are casual rides, while the context was about taking the taxi daily to work. Of course you can keep your car for the weekend drive to the mall, or to the slopes, or if you're a soccer mom, but most employed people will definitely save the daily commute. Expectations change in face of convenience.
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