Live data from Hacker News

Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

news.ycombinator.com

131–140 of 381 posts

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#131

The job market has collapsed. You need to know someboody. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

Im curious if this is true.

It's significantly easier to find a job if you know hiring managers. It's not a gimme, but it will put you ahead of hundreds of applicants.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have all the skills and education you want, if employers are unreasonable about their hiring and requirements, you have no control or recourse. You have to be lucky (including knowing someone, ie networking), not necessarily good.

There is a very large number of employers. If you want to convince me they're all unreasonable, you'll need to show me some pretty compelling evidence.

[dead]

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#134
post #114
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One issue is that not everyone loves learning stuff. Agreed. I do work with some folks who are all "OMG I have to work with this archaic mess." way too often. And I don't disagree with them, but man... not that hard to learn it and code your way out of it. But no they just complain. Hard to really find out who REALLY has the interest in fighting through the unexpected / rough spots.

I personally love working with most legacy systems. It is so satisfying learning all that weirdness and peering into the minds of the original authors to then hopefully get to clean it up and make it better. But of course a handful are just horrible.

Yup, and once you find whatever that system was good at, leverage that as much as possible, it's not that bad.

You also get a feel for the history of various things too.

I work with a big old Coldfusion system at times. Server side rendering was a thing in the past too ;)

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#135
post #8

It's not any kind of paradox. Structural unemployment happens when the skills of the work force don't match the needs of employers, so there is both unemployment and difficulty hiring. Structural unemployment is usually high when there's a rapid change in demand for skills, as of course there is in tech. It results in crazy high salaries too. People with machine learning experience are getting 7-figure offers, while…

Structural unemployment happens when the perceived skills of the workforce don't match the perceived needs of employers, so there is both unemployment and difficulty hiring. A lot of engineers will tell you that companies are often expecting both too much (precise types of experience) and the wrong things (leetcode-type challenges, unnecessarily specific knowledge...), which leads them to pass over perfectly qualifie…

> Structural unemployment happens when the perceived skills of the workforce don't match the perceived needs of employers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons : when "buyers" cannot distinguish between good and bad due to informational issues, even the good products (or in this case employees) cannot find buyers. Market failure.

It might be improvable by the relevant parties getting together and agreeing on a curriculum and exams so people only have to take a test once, for example. But I think that's a long way off.

Of course, ChatGPT makes this a lot worse since it reduces the cost of fakes on both sides: fake applications and fake job adverts.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#136

Tinder for jobs. Swipe to interview.

Honestly, build it. The same thing which makes Tinder a blight on human happiness would make the format an excellent way to pair jobs with job seekers.

What's that thing? Much harm is attributed to Tinder and I don't know how to boil it all down to something that would be a positive for jobseeking.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#137

What really needs to happen is that we need to hire fast and fire fast. Stop it with the 7 rounds of interviews. Assume after some discussion and basic verification that the person isn’t lying about past experience. Hire the first candidate that passes your bar instead of interviewing and ranking 20 candidates. If it turns out that you have hired every tech employers worst nightmare, a person with great experience wh…

you can already hire and fire fast in the US but nobody does it. there is just a bunch of BS talk about "cost of hiring" and "risk".

i also found that "verification" consists of "trick questions". if you can't answer the trick question, then people assume you are lying or a fraud. this doesn't work very well and optimizes for people able to answer trick questions and for those who get turned on asking these type of questions (i.e. people who are labeled "smart").

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#138
post #8

It's not any kind of paradox. Structural unemployment happens when the skills of the work force don't match the needs of employers, so there is both unemployment and difficulty hiring. Structural unemployment is usually high when there's a rapid change in demand for skills, as of course there is in tech. It results in crazy high salaries too. People with machine learning experience are getting 7-figure offers, while…

> People with machine learning experience are getting 7-figure offer

This sounds like a gross exaggeration. Unless they did something like start a company. For an IC at least, even at FAANG it would be bit crazy to start at more than ~$400k. If a project lead, then its obviously more and you can make bank as you move up the ladder.

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#139

What really needs to happen is that we need to hire fast and fire fast. Stop it with the 7 rounds of interviews. Assume after some discussion and basic verification that the person isn’t lying about past experience. Hire the first candidate that passes your bar instead of interviewing and ranking 20 candidates. If it turns out that you have hired every tech employers worst nightmare, a person with great experience wh…

> but can’t code their way out of a paper bag, fire them.

This is a bit of an inhumane way of looking at it. Sure, it's "business", but asking someone to quit their current job to come work with you should only (IMO) be done if you have the intention of actually keeping them there and not "seeing how it works out"

Re: Discussion: Job seekers can't find a job and Employers can't find an employees

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very large number of employers. If you want to convince me they're all unreasonable, you'll need to show me some pretty compelling evidence.

They're almost all cargo culting the same whiteboard algorithm hiring criteria for otherwise humdrum jobs so yeah, they're all kind of unreasonable. An HR fad can cause structural employment just as easily as bona fide requirements not being met.

I've gone through a lot of job seeking in the last year (two companies in a row I've worked for have closed). Didn't have a single leetcode challenge. And I'm looking for us companies who hire remotely from other countries but pay at the us level, so it's supposedly about the hardest difficulty setting possible.
Post reply on HN