Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–139 of 139 posts

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#131

Post by joquarky »

the_biot wrote: post #74
madrox wrote: post #18

I resonate with this a lot. There is a time horizon beyond which the work we do doesn't really matter. No code I wrote five years ago is in production today. A vanishingly small number of products I built are still around. The act of building is a pleasure, but once it's built, its success and impact are pretty much out of my hands. Once I accepted that, I enjoyed the process a lot more, and ironically my output got…

> No code I wrote five years ago is in production today. Same. Sometimes the company disappears, sometimes they just stop maintaining your code after you leave, and it eventually dies. The only code of mine that has stuck around is the open source stuff. And even then... a large open source project I started 15 years ago was wildly successful, but after I left (with another maintainer in place) it languished, and one…

Accepting impermanence is difficult but liberating.

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#132

Post by joquarky »

jaggederest wrote: post #70
taspeotis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a JavaScript dev

Funnily enough my first gigs around the turn of the century were in ASP/JScript! As far as I know that code is still running in production, NT 4.0 or something?

ASP/VBScript is also still a heavy lifter in some industries.

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#133

Post by b112 »

perilunar wrote: post #130
b112 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context counts. And you're actually making my point, about quoting people (where myself, or Jobs or Woz) out of context. My very next sentence: At best, even most people in the field are using 3rd or 5th hand information. See the "most" there? Context counts. The media is far worse than a forum such as this, where at least my words are shown. A reporter will let someone speak for 10 minutes, then quote one sentence c…

If someone on HN who knew someone Jobs or Woz personally tells you something about them it is only 2nd hand, not "at best" 3rd or 5th hand information. If you watch video of them talking, or read their writing (or know them personally) then it is 1st hand. It's fairly easy to get 1st and 2nd hand info about a contemporary figure, so I would suggest most interested people are not using 3rd or 5th hand info. Maybe the…

If someone on HN who knew someone Jobs or Woz personally tells you something about them it is only 2nd hand, not "at best" 3rd or 5th hand information.

So? What's your point here? At no point did I say the above logic was wrong, infer it, say that it was so. You're literally arguing against something I never said, and me pointing that out, and showing you where I said "most", hasn't resulted in you modifying your argument.

I get the impression that you're not reading my entire comment, and then responding with all of the info in mind at once.

For example, I discussed how "knowing someone" has caveats. That talking to someone once, doesn't give context, doesn't equate to "knowing someone". That working with someone doesn't equate to "knowing someone", if the result was "I'd talk to the guy for a few sentences once per month" or "occasionally seem them talking to other people".

The entire context of this conversation revolves around understanding the world view of someone. Not seeing how they act for an incredibly tiny slice, non-contextualized slice of their life. And to "know" someone, you need to have actual, detailed conversations with them.

Further, I've covered how "watch video of them talking" isn't actually 1st hand in many respects. That's because often context is removed. You've just skipped that part.

One other thing you've also missed, is how people change. Part of my post was also about how Jobs wouldn't be the Jobs known by anyone. He'd be "Jobs plus > decade more experience". People change as they age.

If you wish to reply, I'd ask you stop handpicking parts of sentences to respond to, and respond to context as well.

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#134

Post by masfoobar »

Ma8ee wrote: post #90
masfoobar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK - I am glad you are happy. Does not change my point, considering I "genuinely agree" with his comment. Sounds like you just want to shout across the room as if I insulted you or something.

Not at all. I should have chosen my language more carefully. I think we are in general agreement. My only point was that we don’t need any laurels to rest on to be happy with a “small” life.

+1

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#135

Post by madrox »

self_awareness wrote: post #44
madrox wrote: post #18

I resonate with this a lot. There is a time horizon beyond which the work we do doesn't really matter. No code I wrote five years ago is in production today. A vanishingly small number of products I built are still around. The act of building is a pleasure, but once it's built, its success and impact are pretty much out of my hands. Once I accepted that, I enjoyed the process a lot more, and ironically my output got…

You think like this today . Would your life be better if you had this stance for your last 30 years? Would that be your advice for young adults who are just entering life? I guess you were lucky that you didn't have any cases of cancer in the family (if you had, then I apologize and I'm sorry). No important problems that are only easily solved by lots of money. But if it's just luck, then it's really inappropriate to…

I'm not sure what kind of luck you're talking about. I'm not "post-money" and have to work for a living. I've never gotten a startup exit. I am well compensated the way someone with 25 years of work experience would be. I don't know about 30, but I've had this stance for the last 15 or so. I'm now pushing 45. I've had my fair share of family cancers and health crises. I've seen loved ones pass.

And it's those people that are in my head when I think about my world view and shape my views on engineering management. So yeah, my advice to young adults would be (and has been) "plan for waking up one day and finding that work isn't all that important anymore and have a diversification strategy. The real startups are the friends we made along the way."

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#136

Post by madrox »

jollofricepeas wrote: post #88
madrox wrote: post #18

I resonate with this a lot. There is a time horizon beyond which the work we do doesn't really matter. No code I wrote five years ago is in production today. A vanishingly small number of products I built are still around. The act of building is a pleasure, but once it's built, its success and impact are pretty much out of my hands. Once I accepted that, I enjoyed the process a lot more, and ironically my output got…

I don’t know. I had a similar perspective on gratitude when I was broke. I wasnt unhappy necessarily. But when I became “rich” things definitely changed and I don’t even have Woz money. Being “rich” helps in that you don’t worry about money anymore at least not in the way you did before… But as Larry David said as soon as “making money” disappears as a worry than something else tends to take its place in your head. A…

I wouldn't say this is about being rich or not. My father helped shape my perspective, and as he used to say: "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better." [1] He literally grew up in poverty, but he saw his legacy as his family and not his work.

I think there's a subtle difference between living a happy life and looking back being proud of the life you lived. Of course having money is better. Money opens up possibilities for the future. However, on your deathbed when there isn't much future left, possibilities don't matter much and all you're left with is wondering what your legacy will be. In the difference lies hedonism.

1. Like most of the things he said, he got it somewhere, though I can't find a consistent attribution. The oldest seems to be Beatrice Kaufman.

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#137

Post by madrox »

scruple wrote: post #112
madrox wrote: post #18

I resonate with this a lot. There is a time horizon beyond which the work we do doesn't really matter. No code I wrote five years ago is in production today. A vanishingly small number of products I built are still around. The act of building is a pleasure, but once it's built, its success and impact are pretty much out of my hands. Once I accepted that, I enjoyed the process a lot more, and ironically my output got…

I think this is kind of sad, but I guess I'm also very fortunate in who ( most of ) my employers have been. I've spent a large portion of my career working in codebases alongside stuff from the '90s, and with my first employer the things I was doing ~20 years ago are still in production systems today, right there alongside the older bits from the '90s in many cases. I saw some comments in code last week from the foun…

That's great, I guess, but the point is that all work is ephemeral. Whether it lasts five years or 100, there's going to be an end date. When you're on your death bed, is "my code was in production longer than average" going to be what you want your legacy to be?

That's what we're talking about here. Sure, it'd be nice if I built a knockout startup with code so great it lived beyond me, and that's a worthy thing to pursue. However, in the end looking back you may, like Woz, find that was less important than other things.

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#138

Post by scruple »

madrox wrote: post #137
scruple wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is kind of sad, but I guess I'm also very fortunate in who ( most of ) my employers have been. I've spent a large portion of my career working in codebases alongside stuff from the '90s, and with my first employer the things I was doing ~20 years ago are still in production systems today, right there alongside the older bits from the '90s in many cases. I saw some comments in code last week from the foun…

That's great, I guess, but the point is that all work is ephemeral. Whether it lasts five years or 100, there's going to be an end date. When you're on your death bed, is "my code was in production longer than average" going to be what you want your legacy to be? That's what we're talking about here. Sure, it'd be nice if I built a knockout startup with code so great it lived beyond me, and that's a worthy thing to p…

> That's what we're talking about here.

Not at all how I took it, but okay. I worked in embedded, medical robotics, and am now in games. People use the shit I've built, I wish more people in this stupid industry had a similar experience. That's what I was talking about.

> When you're on your death bed, is "my code was in production longer than average" going to be what you want your legacy to be?

This is just weird. No. I don't believe that I'll think about it much. God willing I won't think about it at all starting as soon as I retire but let alone on my death bed.

Re: Steve Wozniak: When I die these are the moments I want to remember

#139

Post by scruple »

gopher_space wrote: post #120
scruple wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is kind of sad, but I guess I'm also very fortunate in who ( most of ) my employers have been. I've spent a large portion of my career working in codebases alongside stuff from the '90s, and with my first employer the things I was doing ~20 years ago are still in production systems today, right there alongside the older bits from the '90s in many cases. I saw some comments in code last week from the foun…

As far as I'm aware the work I've done for institutions that still exist is all largely in place. I wouldn't consider this unusual or surprising in most industries, and certainly not a sign of exceptional competence on my part. Life outside the FAANG-adjacent-or-worshipping community is completely different.

Yes, I didn't think it was exceptional at all. I thought it was just sort of mundane that this happens. But apparently it's rare?
Post reply on HN