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Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

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Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#131

Post by yareal »

I've moved to a meat buying strategy of "only buy meat if you've met the farmer".

I don't object to eating meat, but so much of the industrial meat production world is a nightmare. From disease risk, to abuse of animals, to slash and burn, to waste.

By buying meat from a local farmer, you can eliminate a lot of that. You end up eating less meat, probably, but we buy a whole cow every few years and divvy it up between friends. You could do that more or less often if you still wanted to eat a lot of meat.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#132

Post by Marsymars »

mrighele wrote: post #113
emptysongglass wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing wrong with eating meat and breeding cattle. You're not doing a whole lot to explain why there is nothing wrong with eating meat and breeding cattle. I can think of a whole host of reasons why it is wrong in matters of ethics and mercy. Who is there to advocate for the cow? We know cows feel a gamut of emotions just as we do. They are not insensate. Most humans, when given a knife or a captive bolt…

> You're not doing a whole lot to explain why there is nothing wrong with eating meat and breeding cattle. Why should explain why something is NOT bad ? It's up to you to convince him (or others) that it is bad, and the reasoning "according to MY ethics it is bad" is not a good argument. There is a good argument to be made that in the West we should eat less meat, but that doesn't mean removing it completely: it is h…

> There is a good argument to be made that in the West we should eat less meat, but that doesn't mean removing it completely: it is harder to make a balanced vegan diet, so for most people that would mean a less healthy outcome that just eating a moderate amount of meat.

You're making something of a jump there - not eating meat equates to a vegetarian diet, not a vegan diet. One can argue about the merits of a vegan diet over a vegetarian one, but a vegetarian, non-vegan diet is already a big step up over a meat-heavy one, and a vegetarian diet including eggs and dairy doesn't really have any challenges in being balanced/healthy compared to a moderate-meat diet.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#133

Post by pests »

notesinthefield wrote: post #123
merpnderp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing people make this claim that cattle spend their entire lives on feed lots, but I've never seen this anywhere and I've been all over cattle country. Where do they do this? Because around here feedlots are only for finishing cattle and typically only spend about 2-3 months there after having very happy lives as calves on a ranch.

[flagged]

No one said that.

They did not live the entire lives in the feedlot.

Anything else, you read into.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#134

Post by mathieuh »

carlosjobim wrote: post #108
lukas099 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-hunting. But this isn’t a good argument. 1) equivocating hunting with breathing? One is necessary for life, the other is done by less than a quarter of people, and for most of them it’s just a hobby. 2) slavery has also been done probably since humanity began millions of years ago, so that clearly is not sufficient for something shoulding be legal.

Hunting is just as necessary for life as breathing. Domestication of animals and agriculture are the unnatural ways that man has invented. So banning it is banning the most natural human behaviour. All other predators do nothing except hunt, breathe, drink, sleep and mate. And they don't keep slaves. There's a lot of people who never drink water, but drinking water is still essential and shouldn't be outlawed.

That doesn't make any sense. What makes hunting any more natural than agriculture? Isn't exerting control over our environment one of the defining characteristics of humanity?

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#136

Post by guhidalg »

debacle wrote: post #107
matt_daemon wrote: post #2

For anyone interested in the numbers behind how bad beef and deforestation are for the environment, see Hannah Ritchie’s great new book Not the End of the World .

As a counter point, livestock are a critical part of the regenerative ag movement. Our property was farmland for 150 years before it basically ran out of nutrients in the 1970s. After one year of a pretty good harvest (not great) in 2019, we couldn't grow anything. One home testing kit later, and we found that there were virtually no minerals in the soil. Fast forward five years and between heavy composting and gener…

Where did the feed for the animals come from?

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#137

Post by earth-adventure »

walthamstow wrote: post #94
cogman10 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up similarly and it's part of the reason I've cut back on my meat. Shoving 100 cattle into a 1 acre feed lot for their entire lives is unfortunately how a lot of beef is produced. They spend their lives covered in shit, sleeping in shit, and trapped with no where to roam. And instead of addressing this problem, my state (Idaho) made it illegal to take photos of the issue. [1] [1] https://legislature.idaho.gov/…

Money is speech, but photos are not apparently

A picture is worth a thousand words, so the voice of the industry would become too expensive (bribes, oh excuse me, lobbying and consulting) if the public can use pictures. Hence, pictures are forbidden.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#138

Post by toolz »

rmbyrro wrote: post #87
cogman10 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up similarly and it's part of the reason I've cut back on my meat. Shoving 100 cattle into a 1 acre feed lot for their entire lives is unfortunately how a lot of beef is produced. They spend their lives covered in shit, sleeping in shit, and trapped with no where to roam. And instead of addressing this problem, my state (Idaho) made it illegal to take photos of the issue. [1] [1] https://legislature.idaho.gov/…

wow, one year in jail just for trespassing or taking a photo and doing absolutely no damage. I wonder how much it costs to buy a legislature house. Can't we crowfund buying it to make "modern" farming illegal?

I personally empathize more with the concerns of poor humans than I do mistreated animals and increasing food costs seems likely to increase their pain. I'll gladly wait for technology to improve the lives of animals, but I think it's important our legislation focuses entirely on improving the life of people, exclusively.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#139

Post by guhidalg »

MandieD wrote: post #127
pgraf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which… is largely fed to our livestock?

If you want less rainforest torn down to grow soybeans, eat more soybeans.

Soybeans aren't just good for food, they can be turned into fuel and plastics.

Re: Tracking Illicit Brazilian Beef from the Amazon to Your Burger

#140

Post by giantg2 »

rmbyrro wrote: post #87
cogman10 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up similarly and it's part of the reason I've cut back on my meat. Shoving 100 cattle into a 1 acre feed lot for their entire lives is unfortunately how a lot of beef is produced. They spend their lives covered in shit, sleeping in shit, and trapped with no where to roam. And instead of addressing this problem, my state (Idaho) made it illegal to take photos of the issue. [1] [1] https://legislature.idaho.gov/…

wow, one year in jail just for trespassing or taking a photo and doing absolutely no damage. I wonder how much it costs to buy a legislature house. Can't we crowfund buying it to make "modern" farming illegal?

"wow, one year in jail just for trespassing"

Many western states have much stricter views on property rights and trespassing than the coasts. The penalties are generally higher even if not dealing with this specific scenario. Even regular ID trespassing law can carry 6mo-1y jail time depending on the circumstances, etc.

One often overlooked thing that isn't particularly applicable in this case is the biosecurity aspect involved in agricultural trespassing. Even trespassing in agricultural areas without taking pictures can carry higher penalties in many states.

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