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Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

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Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#131

Post by CryptoBanker »

Laremere wrote: post #124

For anyone who doesn't follow rocket launches: Launch scrubs happen /constantly/. It happens to everyone, and a single scrub is not a sign of problems with a program. If it takes multiple scrubs with months of delays before it finally launches, then it'll be another thing to add on to Starliner's list of difficulties fulfilling their contract with NASA. However a scrub or two is business as usual.

Did you read the article? It wasn’t a weather scrub. It was a faulty valve that ULA usually fixes by doing the hardware equivalent of turning it off and turning it back on again.

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#132

Post by Diederich »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #129
Laremere wrote: post #124

For anyone who doesn't follow rocket launches: Launch scrubs happen /constantly/. It happens to everyone, and a single scrub is not a sign of problems with a program. If it takes multiple scrubs with months of delays before it finally launches, then it'll be another thing to add on to Starliner's list of difficulties fulfilling their contract with NASA. However a scrub or two is business as usual.

Weather scrubs are common, and not relevant to the success of a program. GSE (Ground Servicing Equipment) are fairly common and fairly benign. Valves on the rocket? Much, much more rare, and usually indicate some form of issue.

From what was said at the scrub conference, with additional context, it was scrubbed only because of more strict rules regarding it being a manned mission. Normally they would have just recycled a valve and moved ahead with the launch. Apparently the rick here is extremely minimal.

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#133

Post by ceejayoz »

imglorp wrote: post #127
subsubzero wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of a larger moat in any industry where the leader has such a gigantic head start than spaceX. The "old guard" is so far behind why would the US Govt. or NASA give those companies any money now as it would be akin to setting it on fire. I mean spacex had 96 launches last year compared to ULAs 3. It just shows how much bureaucracy can just kill a companies innovation.

Head start? Boeing has 108 years of vast aerospace history and culture. The mistakes on this project are well summarized by an Ars article this week, mostly coming down to the well known management issues plus an inability to operate in a fixed price procurement setting; everything about their organization depended on cost plus structures. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/05/the-surprise-is-not-th...

SpaceX absolutely has a head-start now on reusability, launch costs, etc.

Boeing's century of experience was supposed to give them a head start on Commercial Crew; they squandered it, and recent history has the resulting gap getting bigger, not smaller.

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#134

Post by lupusreal »

tw04 wrote: post #113
AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, it's not even remotely close. SpaceX had 98 launches in 2023. ULA, the closest competitor, had 3. For all of these others, considering that this article is from 2022, how many of them even still exist? Don't get me wrong, I hope SpaceX gets some stiff competition because I believe that competition breeds innovation. At the moment, however, I have no idea where that is going to come from or when it might…

So you didn't click the link? Because ULA wasn't second, rocket labs had 9 launches last year and 24 scheduled this year. As I said, the launch industry in the US is robust.

When/if SpaceX gets Starship operational, small outfits like Rocket Lab won't be able to compete. ULA will probably survive in some form though either due to being a well established in Washington (read: old trusted corruption), or through a merger with Blue Origin (read: bailed out by Bezos.)

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#135

Post by dylan604 »

Laremere wrote: post #124

For anyone who doesn't follow rocket launches: Launch scrubs happen /constantly/. It happens to everyone, and a single scrub is not a sign of problems with a program. If it takes multiple scrubs with months of delays before it finally launches, then it'll be another thing to add on to Starliner's list of difficulties fulfilling their contract with NASA. However a scrub or two is business as usual.

> If it takes multiple scrubs with months of delays before it finally launches

For anyone who doesn't follow rocket launches, this comment perfectly describes Boeing's Starliner program. Every. Single. Time. it tries to launch there is a non-weather related scrub. Valve issues have been a consistent issue for the capsule, and now it's the booster.

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#136

Post by pc86 »

CryptoBanker wrote: post #131
Laremere wrote: post #124

For anyone who doesn't follow rocket launches: Launch scrubs happen /constantly/. It happens to everyone, and a single scrub is not a sign of problems with a program. If it takes multiple scrubs with months of delays before it finally launches, then it'll be another thing to add on to Starliner's list of difficulties fulfilling their contract with NASA. However a scrub or two is business as usual.

Did you read the article? It wasn’t a weather scrub. It was a faulty valve that ULA usually fixes by doing the hardware equivalent of turning it off and turning it back on again.

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#137

Post by [deleted] »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #129
Laremere wrote: post #124

For anyone who doesn't follow rocket launches: Launch scrubs happen /constantly/. It happens to everyone, and a single scrub is not a sign of problems with a program. If it takes multiple scrubs with months of delays before it finally launches, then it'll be another thing to add on to Starliner's list of difficulties fulfilling their contract with NASA. However a scrub or two is business as usual.

Weather scrubs are common, and not relevant to the success of a program. GSE (Ground Servicing Equipment) are fairly common and fairly benign. Valves on the rocket? Much, much more rare, and usually indicate some form of issue.

[deleted]

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#138

Post by subsubzero »

ceejayoz wrote: post #133
imglorp wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Head start? Boeing has 108 years of vast aerospace history and culture. The mistakes on this project are well summarized by an Ars article this week, mostly coming down to the well known management issues plus an inability to operate in a fixed price procurement setting; everything about their organization depended on cost plus structures. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/05/the-surprise-is-not-th...

SpaceX absolutely has a head-start now on reusability, launch costs, etc. Boeing's century of experience was supposed to give them a head start on Commercial Crew; they squandered it, and recent history has the resulting gap getting bigger, not smaller.

exactly, I mean Boeing can't even make planes with doors that don't fall off in flight. I wouldn't look to Boeing for any engineering excellence in 2024.

Re: Boeing Starliner's first crewed mission scrubbed

#140

Post by idontpost »

imglorp wrote: post #127
subsubzero wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of a larger moat in any industry where the leader has such a gigantic head start than spaceX. The "old guard" is so far behind why would the US Govt. or NASA give those companies any money now as it would be akin to setting it on fire. I mean spacex had 96 launches last year compared to ULAs 3. It just shows how much bureaucracy can just kill a companies innovation.

Head start? Boeing has 108 years of vast aerospace history and culture. The mistakes on this project are well summarized by an Ars article this week, mostly coming down to the well known management issues plus an inability to operate in a fixed price procurement setting; everything about their organization depended on cost plus structures. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/05/the-surprise-is-not-th...

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