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FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

docs.fcc.gov

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Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#131

Post by nox101 »

ethbr1 wrote: post #90
idatum wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything should be opt-in. Burden should be on them, something like, "We want to share your data and if you agree here are the benefits to you."

That's something I think the EU got right -- being hard-nosed about true tracking consent requiring a user to receive the same outcome regardless of their choice. Anything shy is begging companies to dark-engineer patterns around obtaining it.

The EU didn't get this right - or else they aren't enforcing it. I'm in the EU right now and the crap I see is a popup "We respect your privacy. Us and 352 (not an exaggeration!) of our partners are collecting data on you. Approve or Details?" Pick details and you can spend your time going through the partners

https://pasteboard.co/rrL2bpmiE6Zq.png

And most you can't reject

Even more hilarious. pageboard itself said 847 partners!

https://pasteboard.co/XQHhPzTw42Pv.png

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#134

Post by pavon »

ethbr1 wrote: post #87
xyst wrote: post #78

$200M is chump change. These carriers have been doing this for a long time. Nothing will change. At most, a footnote in the privacy policy will be added.

The amount is not the point. It's the fact that they were fined. Shareholders tend to be unhappy with "We were fined for doing this, and so we kept doing it and now owe another fine." Also, exec bodies/courts/juries tend to be more skeptical of an ignorance defense if a company was literally fined for doing that exact thing previously.

> that exact thing previously.

Yes, it stops them from doing that exact same thing again while incentivizing the general behavior of intentionally breaking laws until told to stop.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#135

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

abujazar wrote: post #114

Those fines are pocket money for the offenders. Why are there no real consequences?

Regulators have largely been defanged in the US for decades now.

Just read the article and note that this was discovered in 2018, the FCC decided to do something in 2020, and from then until now it's been gridlocked by Republican party obstruction on the panel.

And this isn't nearly the end of it. It'll go to court under appeal, for more years, and who knows how that falls.

The result is regulators like the FCC and SEC barely enforce any standard of corporate behavior. A big part of it is they've been so gutted they don't have the resources to meet the necessary volume even in the absence partisan gridlock.

This is what happens when "Government bad, regulations bad" rhetoric comes home to roost. The violators pay a token fine and the average American gets screwed.

Maybe we should rethink that rhetoric just a bit?

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#136

Post by alwaysrunning »

lbwtaylor wrote: post #126
alwaysrunning wrote: post #113

It would take the combined daily revenue of T-Mobile, AT&T, and Verizon approximately 9 hours to generate $196 million in revenue. To estimate the time it takes for T-Mobile, AT&T, and Verizon combined to generate $196 million in revenue, we need to calculate their combined daily revenue. Let's assume the combined daily revenue of the three companies is: T-Mobile: $45.5 million (as estimated earlier) AT&T: $125.6 mil…

The calculation is wrong. With daily revenue of $520.4mm, it takes less than half a day to generate revenue of $196mm. It's also a less interesting approach than it would be by looking at profit, which is closer to the real impact.

Thanks, updated. It would take a little over a day for them to generate $196 million.

Let's assume the combined daily gross profit of the three companies is:

T-Mobile: 15.5 million (estimated gross margin of 34% on 45.5 million revenue) AT&T: 42.5 million (estimated gross margin of 34% on 125.6 million revenue) Verizon: 121.5 million (estimated gross margin of 35% on 349.3 million revenue) Combined daily gross profit: 15.5 million + 42.5 million + 121.5 million = 179.5 million

To generate $196 million in gross profit, it would take the combined daily gross profit of the three companies approximately:

179.5 million (combined daily gross profit) ÷ 196 million (target gross profit) ≈ 1.09 days

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#137

Post by jddj »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #129
jddj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reads like LLMs are slowly getting better at math.

Not much better. Look at the last line. (Pointed out by https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40204564 )

Yeah, I did check it all before I commented, quietly preparing to come out with something a little more scathing.

It's nearly there though so it's genuinely an improvement on how they used to behave.

Leaving aside the general ridiculousness, that is, and without checking their actual daily revenue which I'm fairly confident is more likely to be wrong than the arithmetic.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#138

Post by mperham »

colinsane wrote: post #118
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #24

I used to work for a hedge fund that bought data for 125 million americans a month, all of their mobile phone pings. All sorts of deep learning algorithms analyze shopping, warehouse, and other foot traffic. People have no idea the level of understanding some private investors have. It goes far beyond anything you see in public numbers. Some of the smartest people on the planet, teasing out wild facts about daily hab…

how far along are they into correlating different datasets and de-anonymizing? say i buy everything in cash: prepaid SIM, a cellphone without my name in the purchase history, not running anything i didn't compile from source (NixOS on a phone): do you figure my data's useless enough so as to not make it into these datasets? or they're accustomed to correlating so many data points that the cash-only route doesn't acco…

They don't care about you or any one individual. They are collecting this data so they can buy/sell shares ahead of the public markets and quarterly reports. Same idea as using satellite photos to determine Walmart parking lot usage.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/08/19/129298095/with...

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#139

Post by nickff »

justaman wrote: post #121
abujazar wrote: post #114

Those fines are pocket money for the offenders. Why are there no real consequences?

We just had our constitutional rights shat on. Slap on the wrist....

What constitutional right to privacy from private parties? There’s no explicit constitutional right to privacy, and the constitution only binds the government.

Re: FCC fines largest wireless carriers for sharing location data

#140

Post by whamlastxmas »

10000truths wrote: post #122
alwaysrunning wrote: post #112

[flagged]

Why would you use revenue and not net profit for this calculation?

Because profit is a poor indicator of financial flexibility. Amazon being the famous example of running at maximum growth for many years instead of trying to have fat profits. That said, revenue isn’t a great indicator either.
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