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The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

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Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#131

Post by specialist »

briandear wrote: post #106
esrauch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound nefarious for them to loan power tools somehow, while it seems like it's just an identified community need niche that they can service that no other organization will, the same as offering free tax advice or ESL classes or anything else.

[flagged]

> The need for physical libraries has passed... The internet has made those concepts as archaic as carrying coins.

Our species' and society's need for community remains high. Many of us (naive) technophiles predicted the internet would somehow be the best community ever. Perhaps even global.

Oops.

As you know, the internet, esp algorithmic hate machines and social media, destroys community. Our declining public and mental health is just one terrible adverse effect.

The need for libraries, to rebuild and nuture communities, has never been greater.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#132

Post by s1artibartfast »

StockHuman wrote: post #114
briandear wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Have you considered leaving this society where people value libraries for one without taxes? It might suit you better. As per tools, you benefit from having a community that doesn’t needlessly spend on tool duplication or rental, which ultimately concentrates local wealth. But that’s an economic argument when the real one is that it’s a desirable service for cost, convenience and community spirit.

To be fair, the library lovers took over the government from the no tax party, so you are bound to see some friction. No taxes lost their country, and are frustrated.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#133

Post by s1artibartfast »

waveBidder wrote: post #25
cortesoft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is how everything in the digital age works - artificial scarcity. It does seem silly, although I also struggle to think how else we can make the whole thing work.

a couple of alternatives are donation models (patreon), or quadratic funding, where a common pool is used to provide the incentive to contribute to the creation of a public good at the actual value you get out of it (see Radical Markets for a description). there's definitely others- the main problem is there are powerful actors who benefit greatly from the status quo, and coordination is hard.

Often times those powerful actors are the authors and creators. There is very little that the traditional publishers can do to stop someone if they want to open source a book, or give libraries infinite copies.

I'm a big fan of alternatives, but have come to realize there often valid reasons why they aren't used.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#134

Post by mock-possum »

kazinator wrote: post #35

If libraries want to be part of the e-racket, maybe they need to drink the full commercial Kool-Aid, and introduce a two-tier model: a free, regular membership and a paid, premium membership. The premium memberships fees go toward buying content, and are rewarded with perks like longer loan periods, priority holds, and exclusive access to new material.

Don’t even joke about it. Libraries should be free to the public, period. Providing free access to library services to the public is one of the most important benefits government should offer their citizens.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#135

Post by dmbche »

briandear wrote: post #106
esrauch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound nefarious for them to loan power tools somehow, while it seems like it's just an identified community need niche that they can service that no other organization will, the same as offering free tax advice or ESL classes or anything else.

[flagged]

"I am not opposed to libraries or free tool rental — I am opposed to paying for them with our public tax money. If people want those things, then band together and spend your own money doing it. Ironically enough, I’d even donate to such a cause. "

Alright so NOT public funds, but everyone that wants to take part or that is tacitly endorsing it.. and you would even give happily?

What's the difference with taxes?

I sure wonder how much is spent on public librairies vs the tax cuts companies like Apple get. But surely, we all benefit from multinationals getting tax cuts, aren't we? Much more than from our neighbors having access to books and tools right?

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#136

Post by xur17 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #89
irjustin wrote: post #60

> As a consumer, when you buy an e-book or e-audiobook, it costs about the same or sometimes even less than the print book version. But for libraries, the e-book or e-audiobook version of a title actually costs up to three times or more than the print version. > This is because publishers use a licensing model for selling e-books to libraries. Each copy of a digital book title requires a purchase of a license. While…

Copyright has a thing called the first sale doctrine. You buy a book and now that copy is yours. You can sell it to someone else or lend it out etc., which is what libraries do. They don't have to negotiate with publishers at all, they just go to a book store and buy books. Publishers claim that ebooks are totally different and have to be licensed instead of purchased because it's the internet. This is, of course, a…

> Copyright has a thing called the first sale doctrine. You buy a book and now that copy is yours. You can sell it to someone else or lend it out etc., which is what libraries do. They don't have to negotiate with publishers at all, they just go to a book store and buy books.

Part of the challenge is that reselling digital goods in a way that doesn't allow you to resell to multiple people isn't a solved problem. Crypto is probably the closest to a solution, but obviously that isn't widely adopted in a way that would work for ebooks yet.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#137

Post by triceratops »

briandear wrote: post #106
esrauch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound nefarious for them to loan power tools somehow, while it seems like it's just an identified community need niche that they can service that no other organization will, the same as offering free tax advice or ESL classes or anything else.

[flagged]

> We all benefit from police, fire, ambulance, and roads — we all don’t benefit from free power tools

I wonder what your thoughts on government healthcare are. We'd all benefit from it, right?

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#138

Post by wizzwizz4 »

xur17 wrote: post #136
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright has a thing called the first sale doctrine. You buy a book and now that copy is yours. You can sell it to someone else or lend it out etc., which is what libraries do. They don't have to negotiate with publishers at all, they just go to a book store and buy books. Publishers claim that ebooks are totally different and have to be licensed instead of purchased because it's the internet. This is, of course, a…

> Copyright has a thing called the first sale doctrine. You buy a book and now that copy is yours. You can sell it to someone else or lend it out etc., which is what libraries do. They don't have to negotiate with publishers at all, they just go to a book store and buy books. Part of the challenge is that reselling digital goods in a way that doesn't allow you to resell to multiple people isn't a solved problem. Cryp…

> reselling digital goods in a way that doesn't allow you to resell to multiple people isn't a solved problem.

Replace "digital goods" with "artworks", and yes it is a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_authenticity

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#139

Post by xur17 »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #138
xur17 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright has a thing called the first sale doctrine. You buy a book and now that copy is yours. You can sell it to someone else or lend it out etc., which is what libraries do. They don't have to negotiate with publishers at all, they just go to a book store and buy books. Part of the challenge is that reselling digital goods in a way that doesn't allow you to resell to multiple people isn't a solved problem. Cryp…

> reselling digital goods in a way that doesn't allow you to resell to multiple people isn't a solved problem. Replace "digital goods" with "artworks", and yes it is a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_authenticity

COAs are physical, and as referenced on that page, NFTs are the main solution to this.

Re: The Seattle Public Library is reducing maximum digital holds

#140

Post by Nevermark »

Zambyte wrote: post #88
cortesoft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is how everything in the digital age works - artificial scarcity. It does seem silly, although I also struggle to think how else we can make the whole thing work.

Another way to make it work is the way Free Software tends to be monetized: by selling labor (real scarcity) instead of licenses (imaginary scarcity).

How would that work for large scale, slow and/or risky return projects?

We have several systems for matching resources to production because there isn't any single way that works best. But it is interesting to try to stretch each model as far as it can, for best results we can get.

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