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Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

reuters.com

131–140 of 222 posts

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#131
post #35

The concept of intellectual property is antithetical to how humans have progressed socially and technologically for millenia. It's a wasteful aberration that strangles innovation with red tape and hands control of our culture over to those with the financial mean to claim to own it. The day we wrest back that control will be a good day.

> It's a wasteful aberration that strangles innovation with red tape This is a strong claim, without any evidence to support it. In fact, a look at the historical record, as others have pointed out, very much shows an extremely strong correlation between intellectual property rights and technological development. Sure, this is merely correlation, but that's certainly better than a strong claim without any evidence. I…

The book "Against Intellectual Monopoly" by Michele Boldrin and David K. Levine has a decent overview of the arguments supporting this claim.

https://annas-archive.org/search?q=against+intellectual+mono...

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public will buy the cheapest, almost-as-good option 99% of the time. If morality were a strong deciding factor, we wouldn't have megacorporations like Nestlé and Unilever making everything, nor would all of our clothes be made by sweatshops. I'm not going to spend billions of dollars on some new gadget when every other company will have the exact same thing for sale next month with razor-thin margins. There's no…

It's almost like capitalism stifles innovation. Paradoxically it's one of the most common arguments people use in favor of the system: it pushes innovation! It actually pushes innovation towards profits, not pure innovation. When real innovation happens it's mostly by coincidence on the small intersection of the Venn diagram. Edit: It's interesting that the patent system was created, in theory, to allow people to pro…

> It's almost like capitalism stifles innovation.

It's not. It's nowhere close. "Capitalism" (which is a weasel word to begin with), has produced far more innovation than any other economic system.

Even aside from the overwhelming historical evidence soundly disproving your point, your argument is designed to deceive:

> It actually pushes innovation towards profits, not pure innovation.

Strawman argument - very few people believe or claim that "capitalism" directly incentivizes innovation - the "side effect" of innovation happening as a result of chasing profits is literally how "capitalism" is designed to work - and does so extremely effectively. Unless you've been living under a rock the past century, it's not hard to see the incredible technological advances that have happened purely as a result of "capitalism". The "small intersection of the Venn diagram", while small in relative terms (and there's nothing wrong with that), is a large absolute amount.

It's also the case that it's completely infeasible to directly incentivize innovation - the best that you can do is attach it to some other measurement - which is exactly what "capitalism" does.

> It's interesting that the patent system was created, in theory, to allow people to profit from innovation and actually promote it. Ironically it instead created a whole industry of extracting rent from broad useless patents that stifles innovation even further.

It's pretty obvious that a system created for a purpose can initially fulfill that purpose very well and then be corrupted by humans over time, with no implication of being initially unsuitable.

Patents have become rent-seeking because of corrupt regulators - corrupt regulators that anti-capitalists would happily put into greater positions of power and give more power to meaningfully decrease the quality of human life.

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#133
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment implies that most of the massive technological innovation since 1400s came around because of patents. That's far from the truth. Patent systems that old were local and very different from the modern variant. Besides, most regions didn't have patent systems at all. The Netherlands didn't really get patent law until early 20th century. That didn't stop them from innovating and inventing. Germany similarly.

I did not read any such implication.

The dash marks injecting the second part of the sentence does make a strong implication.

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#134

Can someone please ELI5: What tech did the patent cover?

Apparently by taking prior art (DNS, server,user interface), and packaging it into a single "product" (DNS software optimized for specific hardware) - You've created a new thing.

INNOVATION!

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#135

Im still very undecided on software patents and have been since they were first awarded software patents in general are a bad idea imho, go trade secret and never let the ideas enter the public domain. otoh society benefits a lot from good ideas entering the public domain, and the patent system is fairly effective at stopping everyone keeping their secret sauce a secret. Since the US has them, and this decision seems…

> go trade secret and never let the ideas enter the public domain. If you rely on trade secrets, then you can't sell your software without protecting it using a dongle or whatever; your "customer" might in fact be your competitor. It's not that hard to figure out how a piece of software works, and to write your own code that works the same way. It's not hard to figure out how some novel machine works either; but how…

thats mostly why most software is SaaS now. No need for a dongle, the end user never gets near the actual software.

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#136

Im still very undecided on software patents and have been since they were first awarded software patents in general are a bad idea imho, go trade secret and never let the ideas enter the public domain. otoh society benefits a lot from good ideas entering the public domain, and the patent system is fairly effective at stopping everyone keeping their secret sauce a secret. Since the US has them, and this decision seems…

If software patents were to become a good thing the duration of the patent should be very short.

but then there would be no incentive to publish the internal workings of the innovation, and you are back to trade secrets. 20/25 years is already fairly short tbh.

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#137
post #101
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but there was a patent describing a USB-powered vibrator. While the idea of a vibrator is not new, and the idea of powering devices via USB isn't new either, the combination of these two non-new ideas was new. The patent was granted, and when someone (not the patent holder) produced a USB-powered vibrator, they were found in a violation of the patent in question. Similarly, if someone made a patent about "build…

That sounds ridiculous to me... By the same logic, I could patent a car that is charged by USB (not very efficient, but eh, it's new !) and then nobody could build a car charged via USB ?

Missed opportunity to patent putting a USB-C port in a car...

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#138
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to show that you were already working on it independently which is effectively establishing prior art and you are literally it. How do you do that? beyond my pay grade.

Simple - You keep a notebook, or send yourself emails. If you want more definitive timestamping, there are services that will do that, like OpenTimestamps, an actually a decent use case for blockchain.

I'd say thank God for git history but I suppose they were using perforce back then

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#139
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't put aside, say, 3% of your taxes to fund research into medicine? Especially if that research focused not on "what's the most profitable medicine" but rather "what medicine would increase well being the most"? You really can't imagine that decoupling the profit motive from drug research is possible?

Government investment in biomedical research has a history of following political fashion rather than optimizing for the best outcomes. Diseases that a politician cannot talk about in a press conference don’t get funded. The rise of private foundations funding a large percentage of all biomedical research was a response to government, and sometimes companies, reliably ignoring major medical research areas.

[citation needed]

Research funding is allocated mostly by the academic community itself, via panels consisting of academics. This does have problems of its own, but they have little to do with politics as in elected politicians. Policians can have some influence on general directions, but it's quite limited.

What you say sounds very much based on the general anti-government and anti-democratic ideology rather than evaluation of history.

Re: Amazon owes $525M in cloud-storage patent fight, US jury says

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My read of patent one is that they basically created DNS for storage. But DNS was invented in 1983 so I'm not really sure what was novel here other than pointing it at data, which uses a few extra headers, ala my comment. Even if there was nothing closer to this than DNS I don't think this patent should be valid.

I think that in general, "use solution A to problem X to solve problem Y instead" is, in principle, a valid patent - assuming that it's not obvious that solution A would help with problem Y. After all, patents are about "how do I solve problem Y", not about the general algorithms themselves. However, the "it's not obvious" part is very important. Not working in the field, it's not at all clear to me if using DNS for…

You are literally describing software engineering.
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