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The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

kinder.rice.edu

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Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#131

Post by nickpp »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #114
nickpp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for the ones that won't? Then you confiscate, sure. And show publicly that you offered 10x and were refused. But not confiscation by default, in all cases. I guess my argument is that if you really want something, you better pay up. Like for anything else, from cars and boats to 10x developers. What if the government could come to you whenever they want and say: I forcefully require your work and talent and I w…

> But not confiscation by default, in all cases. They don't (at least, I don't think they do). I don't know if I said something that you interpreted as "confiscate first", but that was not what I meant.

I went through such a expropriation a couple years back. All I got was a notification letter and a check for corresponding amount (arguably under market value).

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#132

Post by nickpp »

unethical_ban wrote: post #106
nickpp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. > imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solut…

You just described eminent domain. What, you thought the government took land with no compensation? Saying it should be 2-10x market value is quibbling over execution, not ideology.

Maybe I am quibbling about execution, but as someone who went through a (tiny) expropriation I find it's huge difference between: "here's just market value (in a depressed market too) for the land you really cared about" and vs "here's a nice generous profit on something the big guys really really need.

I mean if you're gonna f_ck me in the end anyway, at least have the decency to buy me dinner first.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#133

Post by nickpp »

sarchertech wrote: post #109
nickpp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because people try to hold the project hostage for ransom Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. > imagine that you had to negotiate with 10,000 homeowners Imagine you offer them 2-10x market value. With a confidentiality clause. And the threat of confiscation or project abandonment. I believe an amiable solut…

> Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. Completely different situation. You only need the majority of the workers in the union. No single person or small group of people can hold up the process. For this situation to be at all similar to a union negation, you’d need to group all affected property owners togethe…

> equates to a higher cost to the taxpayers

Considering the astonishing inefficiency of government works I really doubt confiscation compensations is a significant expenditure.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#134

Post by red-iron-pine »

basil-rash wrote: post #119
dwaltrip wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you the weigh the transportation rights of many against the property rights of one?

What’s this “transportation right” you speak of? The right to roam isn’t guaranteed by the constitution, but protection against unlawful seizure of private property is. We should be careful to not conflate the rights actually guaranteed to us by the law of the land with things that various individuals feel are “nice to have”. And certainly not deprioritize the former in favor of the latter.

unlawful seizure -- there sure is a law about it, called eminent domain

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#135

Post by sarchertech »

nickpp wrote: post #133
sarchertech wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions hold countries hostage by closing down rail or airports. Still, a solution that doesn't cost 1 billion dollars per person is always found. Completely different situation. You only need the majority of the workers in the union. No single person or small group of people can hold up the process. For this situation to be at all similar to a union negation, you’d need to group all affected property owners togethe…

> equates to a higher cost to the taxpayers Considering the astonishing inefficiency of government works I really doubt confiscation compensations is a significant expenditure.

The government almost never does the work on an infrastructure project, but the high price of infrastructure have much less to with the fact that the government is paying the bill than with the regulations that any project public or private has to work within.

If we stopped eminent domain though, property purchase prices probably would become a significant portion of the total expense.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#136

Post by basil-rash »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #134
basil-rash wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s this “transportation right” you speak of? The right to roam isn’t guaranteed by the constitution, but protection against unlawful seizure of private property is. We should be careful to not conflate the rights actually guaranteed to us by the law of the land with things that various individuals feel are “nice to have”. And certainly not deprioritize the former in favor of the latter.

unlawful seizure -- there sure is a law about it, called eminent domain

That requires “just compensation”, as per the text of the very amendment I cited. Texan voters are unwilling to provide the compensation. Therefore the project does not go forward. It’s really a very simple concept.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#137

Post by shermantanktop »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #65
shermantanktop wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the strawman version of the case is not strong, and of course plays on the fear of possible unspecified other things we would do if we copied China as a general approach. But what about the steelman version of the case? I think it's a lot stronger.

What is the steelman you envision?

For me, if we were to invest in rail infrastructure at scale, we could create benefits so undeniable that even the disgruntled landowners are ok with it.

We did exactly that with freeways, and freedom-lovers generally view the open road as a vast source of individual opportunity, not a symbol of the crushing boot of government. Should we not have done that?

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#138

Post by dbspin »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #92
dbspin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap? I just checked there and Austin to Dallas return is 270 dollars... On a bus. That's just incomprehensibly expensive to me (as a European).

They're priced that way because they compete with shuttle flights, and most importantly, they are far from a normal "bus" experience - the images shown at https://vonlane.com/ are accurate IMO.

Sure, I think the price is reasonable for the service. Calling it 'cheap' is a stretch however.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#139

Post by unwind »

killthebuddha wrote: post #89
unwind wrote: post #71

How can they write an article about a triangle, list four relevant locations in it, while also not including a &^%€*#@ map that shows the thing they are talking about? Gaaah.

FWIW they provide this [1] map. Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio are roughly collinear. [1] https://kinder.rice.edu/sites/g/files/bxs4896/files/images/U...

Okay, thanks. I guess I just didn't see it prominently enough (on Android/Crome) and was a bit triggered.
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