Please don't learn to code • Hacker News Board

Re: Please don't learn to code

#131

Post by arkitaip » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:15 PM UTC

SatvikBeri wrote: post #126

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

With a couple of months of programming knowledge, I wrote a program that saved my company $2MM/year. The key was combining knowledge of the business processes with some knowledge of programming. There were people with knowledge of one or the other, but not both. I still can't write a basic app, but that doesn't matter. I can do things that provide massive value, and I wouldn't be able to do them without programming k…

Brilliant. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#132

Post by maxerickson » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:17 PM UTC

grovulent wrote: post #40

So I wrote a piece advocating why everyone should learn to code: http://reviewsindepth.com/2011/04/why-everyone-should-learn-... I don't think Jeff's piece undermines any of the reasons I put forward there. Going through his points one by one. It's easy to agree that you should ideally write no code - but of course the ideal assumes that all the provided interfaces in the world provide you with everything you desire,…

I have a similar thought, where even simple programs allow use of the computer, rather than just the software available on it.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#133

Post by equilibrium » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:17 PM UTC

I'm going to quote Zed Shaw in response to this article. "Programming as a profession is only moderately interesting. It can be a good job, but you could make about the same money and be happier running a fast food joint. You’re much better off using code as your secret weapon in another profession. People who can code in the world of technology companies are a dime a dozen and get no respect. People who can code in biology, medicine, government, sociology, physics, history, and mathematics are respected and can do amazing things to advance those disciplines."

Re: Please don't learn to code

#134

Post by tibix » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:20 PM UTC

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

Exactly my thoughts.

For me it was like reading: "Writing is not a basic skill; we have plenty of books out there. Most people, when they learn to write, start writing books that are of awful quality!"

Re: Please don't learn to code

#135

Post by scotty79 » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:25 PM UTC

Reading and writing are outright useful. Math you can get by without but it's important indirectly.

Same way being able to code is important indirectly.

  With computers you learn how to express what you want precisely and unambiguously.

You can't hand wave computer into doing what you want. Learning how to be precise and how to not rely on other people guessing what you want is important skill and best way to learn it is to learn to code. You will need this skill in any managerial role.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#136

Post by neokya » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:26 PM UTC

Pretty uninteresting topic from Jeff. For other than professional programmers, it is like guitar.

While professional guitarists take years to master it, anyone can get an acoustic guitar and play 'Hotel California' as hobby.

What the hell is wrong here?

Re: Please don't learn to code

#137

Post by eyko » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:30 PM UTC

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

Also wanted to come here and say this, thanks for pointing it out.

It's like novelists novelists being afraid of people learning to write because then they'd take their jobs or scientists being afraid that people learnt physics, mathematics, cosmology...

One case I can think of... religious priests are sometimes afraid of people actually reading their religious books aren't they? :-P

Re: Please don't learn to code

#138

Post by hej » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:31 PM UTC

tezza wrote: post #6

I applaud 'Learning to code' if it defined as: * taking problems and reducing them to a sequence of repeatable instructions and decision points (branches) . I think 'LtC' is irrelevant if defined as: * I wanna make iPhone apps / Facebook plugins / Instagram ... Where do I get the Magic Handshake for the Mega $$$ ?

What’s the difference? One is just a more abstract definition of the other.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#139

Post by derrida » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:35 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #118

YmMot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the basics are all relatively simple...in fact a lot of the basics are things people do intuitively...it's just they've never really been told or thought about how it would work as a generalized computing machine.

I think the problem is that often when people attempt to explain "computers" they end up explaining things about the Windows operating system like the registry and the "C drive" etc. Of course this stuff is massively complicated and the majority of HN readers probably don't really understand the whole thing so what hope would some random person have? If people could understand a basic turing machine type system and p…

One of the best explanations I've seen for the question 'how does my computer get from these zeros and ones to these windows' is 4 pages in Godel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter. (Starts at 287, all editions pagination is the same)

Re: Please don't learn to code

#140

Post by RyanMcGreal » Tue, May 15, 2012, 1:37 PM UTC

This is like saying you shouldn't learn to write unless you're going to be a writer; or that you shouldn't learn to do math unless you're going to be a mathematician; or that you shouldn't practice sports and athletics unless you're going to be a professional athlete.

In any case, you don't learn to code so you can code. You learn to code so you can solve problems in a repeatable way.