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Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

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Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#131

Post by melagonster »

jimberlage wrote: post #75
baubino wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but I also know (as a university employee) that the reason they don’t do this is because then they would have to pay for and manage the hosting of hundreds of thousands of articles. From the university’s perspective, managing and hosting articles is exactly what publishers do, so universities cede that work to publishers. What is needed is a public database of all publicly-funded research.

At first I was like, “oh, that’s a reasonable perspective,” and then I thought about it more and it kinda isn’t? When I buy a keyboard, the manufacturer doesn’t run a shipping company, so they use $x from the purchase price to subcontract shipping. (They tell me it’s separate at billing, but they don’t make me ring up DSL myself either.) When I hire an electrician, they buy materials from Home Depot, so they use $x f…

Publishers are not supported by government. and government only require publish.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#133

Post by samtho »

melagonster wrote: post #131
jimberlage wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I was like, “oh, that’s a reasonable perspective,” and then I thought about it more and it kinda isn’t? When I buy a keyboard, the manufacturer doesn’t run a shipping company, so they use $x from the purchase price to subcontract shipping. (They tell me it’s separate at billing, but they don’t make me ring up DSL myself either.) When I hire an electrician, they buy materials from Home Depot, so they use $x f…

Publishers are not supported by government. and government only require publish.

You may have missed the point here.

OP was saying that publicly funded research needs to have, built in to its budget for the research, enough money to make the findings publicly available. The publishing mechanism is largely arbitrary here, only that it must be budgeted for.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#134

Post by someplaceguy »

moffkalast wrote: post #124
robg wrote: post #87

If you have any doubts about sleep quantity and quality, worth reading about the glymphatic nervous system, which is so newly discovered likely you didn’t learn about it in school. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4636982/ In short it explains, mechanistically, why poor sleep affects daily cognition, mental health, and age-related declines. Robust scientific theories explain more of the evidence. The glym…

I wonder if eventually once this is more thoroughly researched there could be a way to induce constant cleaning instead of having to do it while unconscious at night? Or at least reduce the hours required. If we could solve this we could just stay awake perpetually and instantly gain a 30% longer lifespan as it were.

> I wonder if eventually once this is more thoroughly researched there could be a way to induce constant cleaning instead of having to do it while unconscious at night?

Hopefully without having to induce those brainwaves, otherwise you might be able to do it during the day but you wouldn't exactly be conscious. But there's also the question of whether those brainwaves are doing more than just cleaning the brain.

I think some types of learning and memory formation also happen during sleep, right?

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#135

Post by gentleman11 »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #49
swores wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find free access to the full paper, but here's the abstract (afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough to add to or explain any of it): " The accumulation of metabolic waste is a leading cause of numerous neurological disorders, yet we still have only limited knowledge of how the brain performs self-cleansing. Here we demonstrate that neural networks synchronize individual action potentials to create large-amplitud…

> Here we demonstrate that neural networks synchronize individual action potentials to create large-amplitude, rhythmic and self-perpetuating ionic waves in the interstitial fluid of the brain This line is the money shot. An action potential is the variable electrical charge of a neuron, and they maintain that charge by containing a certain concentration of ions relative to the surrounding cerebrospinal fluid. This p…

Do these wave of stimulation cause dreaming as a side effect?

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#136

Post by d_sem »

Hrun0 wrote: post #112
robg wrote: post #87

If you have any doubts about sleep quantity and quality, worth reading about the glymphatic nervous system, which is so newly discovered likely you didn’t learn about it in school. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4636982/ In short it explains, mechanistically, why poor sleep affects daily cognition, mental health, and age-related declines. Robust scientific theories explain more of the evidence. The glym…

> which is so newly discovered It says that it was published in 2015, or am I missing something?

You are missing the context of age demographics. For example: in the United States of America about 63% of the population is over the age of 32 which represents roughly 200 million Americans which graduated Highschool before the year 2010.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#137

Post by Aeolun »

Culonavirus wrote: post #129
infecto wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something? 2015 for a paper feels relatively new enough that people might not know about it and it might not be in school books.

People learn in school, then after they estabilish their career, they have kids and other interests and this and that and they get intellectually stuck. Don't grow. Don't learn new things in their field of (supposed) expertise... I see this ALL THE TIME. Now if middle aged programmer refuses to learn new things, it's annoying to work with them, but you'll survive. If a middle aged physician refuses to learn new thing…

That’s why I am on hackernews though? If nobody posted that paper 8 years ago I’d be surprised.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#138

Post by Aeolun »

_yb2s wrote: post #106
achow wrote: post #3

More details at Washington Univ' site: https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/neurons-help-flush-waste-out... Could not find any free access to the paper, even though the Univ' says "This work was supported by the National Institutes of Health (NIH); the BJC Investigators Program at Washington University; and the Neuroscience Innovation Foundation." These kind of grant funded research should be accessible at the least from…

All NIH funded research is freely open access by law. In this case it seems the authors didn’t pay the (crazy expensive) Nature open access fee. They will have to upload a free PDF to PubMed manually, but have up to a year to do so, and don’t seem to have done it yet.

Is Nature’s open access fee really that crazy? Last time I checked it was a few thousand dollars.

And it’s paid once, to make the whole thing open perpetually. It certainly seems better than having the people interested in reading it pay $30-40 each.

Of course, this is also based on the few times I’ve heard researchers talk about the ways they could spend their grant money. $2k to Nature sounds like a great deal by comparison.

Note: Worked for Nature in the past.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#140

Post by yorwba »

Aeolun wrote: post #137
Culonavirus wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People learn in school, then after they estabilish their career, they have kids and other interests and this and that and they get intellectually stuck. Don't grow. Don't learn new things in their field of (supposed) expertise... I see this ALL THE TIME. Now if middle aged programmer refuses to learn new things, it's annoying to work with them, but you'll survive. If a middle aged physician refuses to learn new thing…

That’s why I am on hackernews though? If nobody posted that paper 8 years ago I’d be surprised.

5 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20622712
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