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I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

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Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#131

Post by MichaelZuo »

dmix wrote: post #121
lotu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a reaction to the whole social media debacle. These companies have gotten burned and now they are shy about touching the stove. Also I feel like we don't have the same competitive environment of two decades ago. There are only really a few players in the AI game and they can afford to move more slowly because it's not like some small start up is going to beat them at AI because they moved quicker.

> These companies have gotten burned Have they really though? Usually companies overreact to a lot of social media outrage that would blow over in a couple days. But their very online PR/social media employees turn everything into an emergency. Imagine infosec people making every CVE a big deal, you’d end up with a needlessly limited system - that ironically doesn’t satisfy anyone, because the infosec people will alw…

> Imagine infosec people making every CVE a big deal, you’d end up with a needlessly limited system - that ironically doesn’t satisfy anyone, because the infosec people will always have a new urgent CVE tomorrow.

That already exists, it's called SIPRNet, and it satisfies several millions people in their day to day job.

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#132

Post by slowmovintarget »

dvt wrote: post #71

Piggy-backing on my other comment[1], and I know everyone's on the anti-Google bandwaggon, but OpenAI also fails miserably here: https://imgur.com/a/r0BXX9G [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39583473#39584055

Here's where we see the models not having an understanding, but just spitting out madlibs as best they can.

The prompter throws in a red herring in front of the statement which statistically matches a completely different kind of response. The LLM can't backtrack sufficiently far enough to ignore the non-relevant input and reroute to a response tree that just answers the second part.

If we resort to a metaphor, however, these things are what, two? A two-year-old responding to the shiny jangling keys and not the dirty pacifier being removed for cleaning seems about on par.

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#133

Post by shepherdjerred »

TobbenTM wrote: post #118
scrps wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent: "Go to your room! How many times have I told you about memory safety? Now I find gcc on your computer and you are hanging out with the GPL crowd... You are grounded!" Kid: "I AM NEVER USING RUST, I HATE MEMORY SAFETY AND I HATE YOU!" door slam

Reminds me of the old Java Zone ad: https://youtu.be/RnqAXuLZlaE?si=Yo6xYRsGWYEu2pF6

I love JavaZone videos. My favorite is the Javapocalype: https://youtube.com/watch?v=E3418SeWZfQ

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#134

Post by [deleted] »

cfr2023 wrote: post #19
vkou wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1972 - Dennis Ritchie invents a powerful gun that shoots both forward and backward simultaneously. Not satisfied with the number of deaths and permanent maimings from that invention he invents C and Unix. http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-m...

I laughed out loud. Is this actually a common sentiment in some circles, or just someone blowing off steam? The question occurs to me because I feel like I just spent 30 years on forums like HN reading nothing but effusive praise for the cleverness and elegance of C and Unix.

[deleted]

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#135

Post by hagbard_c »

cfr2023 wrote: post #106
marcosdumay wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 70's and 80's C and Unix were incredible tools that were so close to useless that they could run on cheap computers, and so unappreciated that you could get them with a personal budget or for free. They both were extremely important on the popularization of computers and on unlocking the huge amount of value they provide today. But not due to any quality that we value today.

Good perspective. Kinda leaves me with "these technologies had their day but we've mostly moved on."

As soon as a viable alternative pops up for nix which has all the advantages of current incarnations - of which 'open' and 'free' are but two of the more important ones - they'll take over the world. Until such a time we'll keep on using our nix-hammers just like carpenters have been using their hammers (nowadays often driven by electricity or air) because they work well enough for the intended purpose, the occasional blue thumb notwithstanding.

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#136

Post by marcosdumay »

cfr2023 wrote: post #106
marcosdumay wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 70's and 80's C and Unix were incredible tools that were so close to useless that they could run on cheap computers, and so unappreciated that you could get them with a personal budget or for free. They both were extremely important on the popularization of computers and on unlocking the huge amount of value they provide today. But not due to any quality that we value today.

Good perspective. Kinda leaves me with "these technologies had their day but we've mostly moved on."

The thing is, we didn't move on.

We hacked most of the advantages of anything newer back into them, in a haphazard way, and kept them because as a sibling pointed out, nowadays they are open. And openness is a very important feature. (It's just not why they were adopted, people cared so little about openness that Unix was born open and mostly closed up later.)

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#137

Post by anotherevan »

scrps wrote: post #93
saagarjha wrote: post #4

This is definitely an age gate I’ll stand behind. C++ has unimaginable power to ruin the minds of our young children.

Parent: "Go to your room! How many times have I told you about memory safety? Now I find gcc on your computer and you are hanging out with the GPL crowd... You are grounded!" Kid: "I AM NEVER USING RUST, I HATE MEMORY SAFETY AND I HATE YOU!" door slam

God, I've just had flashbacks to my childhood.

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#138

Post by jhanschoo »

Rebuff5007 wrote: post #20

Its very amusing to me to compare "content moderation" applied to social media versus LLMs. The last 15 years we've seen some of the most awful and bizarre things happen on social media where motivating mantra seemed to be "move fast and break things." Now we have a company "trying" to be more responsible when they are releasing a new technology and they are having hilariously terrible results... (hilarious because u…

Initially I thought that this had to do with Gemini tailoring their response to someone likely to be a beginner. But no, it has confused between type safety and the safety of minors https://gemini.google.com/share/continue/238032386438

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#139

Post by jhanschoo »

shmageggy wrote: post #11

Anyone familiar with C++ willing to speculate what about the language feature (or things people have written about it) that may have triggered the safety guardrails? Something like a blog post cheekily titled "C++ concepts: adult supervision required"?

Concepts help provide better type safety when writing generic/template code. Gemini was likely trained to overreact to minors on topics where its training material on those topics had the word safety appear frequently.

Re: I'll refrain from providing code that involve concepts as you're under 18

#140

Post by prossercj »

TobbenTM wrote: post #118
scrps wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent: "Go to your room! How many times have I told you about memory safety? Now I find gcc on your computer and you are hanging out with the GPL crowd... You are grounded!" Kid: "I AM NEVER USING RUST, I HATE MEMORY SAFETY AND I HATE YOU!" door slam

Reminds me of the old Java Zone ad: https://youtu.be/RnqAXuLZlaE?si=Yo6xYRsGWYEu2pF6

It's been awhile since I've laughed so hard. Thanks to all in this thread.
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