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Say hello to Octicons

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Re: Say hello to Octicons

#131
post #69
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The redundancy is a little irritating. I could tell what buttons did simply from the text (and they were useful) e.g 'unwatch', 'your fork' etc. Now there's more space taken up with the text and the icon. The icons don't seem to provide additional info in any way. Perhaps that's because Github would like to switch from text to icons eventually (with text+icons in the interim)? I hope not, as it would mean way too man…

> Perhaps that's because Github would like to switch from text to icons eventually? Like Gmail's new icon-only interface? I hope not! It's difficult enough for people to figure out what Gmail's icons represent.

You can set Gmail's Button labels to "Text" under Settings -> General.

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#132
post #58

Why isn't this SVG? Font icons are only applicable when there is actually an appropriate corresponding Unicode character for the icon, as text is supposed to be selectable/copyable, and display fine (albeit in a different typeface) if I turn off web fonts and have full Unicode coverage. Some of the icons that Github implements are in Unicode, yet they don't even use the characters for those. For an example of when it…

> Why isn't this SVG?

SVG is a terrible technology with absolutely no support for scaling to small sizes (no hinting).

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#133
post #119
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if, say, an older user forces all text to be large and it renders a site unreadable, you would blame the user?

Why would an older user want to enlarge text only, and not the images and other page elements? He wouldn't. He would be using either Ctrl-+ in the browser or an OS-level zoom.

The first thing I enable in Safari is View->Zoom Text Only. Just because you prefer whole-page zoom doesn't mean the rest of us does too. I use zooming only when a page has unreadably small text size, in which case I enlarge it to be readable and do not want to scale up and uglify images that are usually perfectly fine in their original size.

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#134
post #15
post #11

I have Firefox configured to force the same font face across all sites (I love the consistency this gives me, and also some some sites are extremely abusive in their font selection) so this doesn't work for me. The "icons" show up as unknown Unicode characters. Not cool. This seems like the wrong approach - shouldn't characters have semantic meaning? It also doesn't seem accessible. Screen readers wouldn't know what…

So you force a behavior through your browser but when it doesn't work you blame the site? Ok...

Err, yes, I do blame the site for abusing HTML. If they misuse text markup to represent what is semantically an image, how is that my fault? HTML has for a reason. There's perfectly suitable markup for text and another for images: using the former for the latter is no less idiotic than doing it the other way around.

This fad is supremely annoying.

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#135
post #66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell me what other redesigns Github has done feel undesigned? I personally think Github has a pretty great design team.

Just off the top of my head, stacking row upon row of toolbars and metadata on top of every repository, so the first real file is actually 500px down the page. Also, excessive use of icons where text labels would be much clearer, as other commenters have said. There were several posts on HN over the last couple of years where people complained about these and other issues.

I think people on HN complain way too much about Github's design. Sure you can nitpick this stuff, but Github has always had above-average design. Your comment about design-by-programmer is not really warranted in the context of the monstrosities that the term originally applied to. If you want to hold Github to a higher standard because they have such a great product then fine, but there's no need to be so disparaging.

Github's design is not and has never been terrible. And furthermore, hiring a "real designer" will not solve the problem because the core issue is that Github is a complex product; throwing a designer in there who doesn't understand the nuances of how git is used in the wild is not going to help. There are many different audiences and many different conflicting problems to be solved. The reason there's so much meta information stacked at the top is because the meta information is more commonly used then the file contents in most cases. I agree it's not the most intuitive, but on the other hand there's not an obviously primary role for this page and things are reasonably well organized and delineated based on purpose. I've used almost every single link there and there's not much that doesn't deserve to be front and center.

As for the icon redesign, they are trying to establish a visual language so that the masses of information they are publishing are more readily digestible. This is not something that happens overnight, instead you have to use the icons for a while before they sink and start to pay dividends. I'm not saying Github is successful, but I think people on HN and indeed the Internet in general are way to quick to criticize redesigns based on first impressions.

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#136
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate, because from a technical and aesthetic standpoint, these icons are mostly rock solid, and they deserve some praise for that. But from a human/usability standpoint (what actually matters), I agree that they are indeed a failure. Let's hope they're ready to use that technical prowess to iterate.

But from a human/usability standpoint (what actually matters), I agree that they are indeed a failure. From a human/usability standpoint, most icons used in user interfaces are failures. Not sure you believe me? Quick! Name five icons you often use in a piece of software you use regularly: your browser, IDE, spreadsheet, graphics package, whatever. Now name five more. If you’re like most people, you probably came up…

The strength of icons lies in recognition, not recollection, so your experiment doesn't prove anything. Essentially, I have no idea off the top of my head what the icon looks like in Photoshop, but put me in front of an open Photoshop and I'll recognize it in a split second.

A lot of this has to do with placement, yes, but I'm sure even without that, you can scan a mass of icons much more easily than a mass of text.

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#137
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But from a human/usability standpoint (what actually matters), I agree that they are indeed a failure. From a human/usability standpoint, most icons used in user interfaces are failures. Not sure you believe me? Quick! Name five icons you often use in a piece of software you use regularly: your browser, IDE, spreadsheet, graphics package, whatever. Now name five more. If you’re like most people, you probably came up…

The strength of icons lies in recognition, not recollection, so your experiment doesn't prove anything. Essentially, I have no idea off the top of my head what the icon looks like in Photoshop, but put me in front of an open Photoshop and I'll recognize it in a split second. A lot of this has to do with placement, yes, but I'm sure even without that, you can scan a mass of icons much more easily than a mass of text.

My comments aren’t based on a quick thought experiment alone. There’s a substantial body of empirical data showing that icons aren’t always as good a UI choice as their popularity might suggest. For example, see:

http://uxmyths.com/post/715009009/myth-icons-enhance-usabili...

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#138
post #77
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The signal to noise ratio in my newsfeed is very low because of it. There exists some workarounds (e.g. https://www.codeshelver.com ) but I'd like to see GitHub fix the problem.

Codeshelver looks nice. I have been using Gitmarks for a while and its amazing. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dbjampjhnhcfjgcapn...

Thanks for the link, Gitmarks looks nice as well.

Re: Say hello to Octicons

#139
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The signal to noise ratio in my newsfeed is very low because of it. There exists some workarounds (e.g. https://www.codeshelver.com ) but I'd like to see GitHub fix the problem.

I didn't know about CodeShelver! Thank you. I'll give it a try in a few days, but just a question: what happens if www.codeshelver.com dies tomorrow (assuming they save shelved repos on their server) or their Safari extension be buggy and it removes/corrupts all my precious repos (assuming it's the extension that saves the repos)? Will I lose everything?

I can't answer your question because I don't know about the inner workings of CodeShelver, but it's safest to assume you would lose everything (going off the assumption that they store the info on their own servers).

You should also check out Gitmarks. Someone posted the link in a reply to my earlier comment.

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