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The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

wsj.com

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Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#131

Post by moritzwarhier »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #109
alkonaut wrote: post #94

This has a very simple reason: the cost of manufacturing has shrunk and the cost of repair has not. Because repairs require expensive people and manufacturing can take place with automation or cheap labor. The worst offenders aren't large appliances, it's the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln't just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that…

> When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan. An approach for this is to switch from owning to renting. Say you rent your washing machine for 1000 runs. Consequence then is that you have predictable cost per run and since the vendor is responsible for maintenance and deposition, thus they have an interest in making the machine repairable and recyclable.

I don't dislike this idea as much as many do in principle. But it would indeed allow companies to abuse me. Would only be good when there is enough competition to keep prices down.

Problem is then you'll have to pay a premium for people who are careless with their appliances, or just use them 10x as much as you etc.

And of course this allows the lender to make profit margin as well. So as a consumer, I end up paying more.

But still, for many appliances and devices which I am not an expert in repairing, I'd be OK with this deal.

Many tenants here do this already with the lender being their landlord.

I knowingly pay a premium to use a simple bike with this model:

https://swapfiets.com/

(they're pretty successful here in Europe / NL and germany at least)

I know that the price for this exceeds a good used bike after a year or two at most.

But it often took me months to getting around to fixing my bike, I'm not very good at it, and professional bike repair is also expensive and takes me time.

Renting the bike is still more expensive, but it allows me to have a working bike without hassle; and if something breaks it takes a maximum of a workday or two to have it fixed or get a replacement.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#132

Post by nerdbert »

reaperman wrote: post #105
distances wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miele has that reputation. According to Wikipedia, it "has always been a family-owned and family-run company", which would explain why it hasn't suffered that fate.

I love my Miele vacuum but they're not like the old-school vacuum companies. They too succumbed to modern business practices. They discontinued all their upright models a couple years ago - just 1 year after I bought it. I needed a replacement belt for the carpet brush, but they: - No longer mannufactured that incredibly commonly replaced part -- probably the most frequently replaced part on an upright vacuum. - No l…

> a few years ago Miele changed their canister vacuum bags to force customers to replace them more frequently

Thankfully they also sell bagless vacuums, our Miele bagless is working pretty well so far (though after a couple years it's definitely started to get louder, despite me doing all the recommended maintenance).

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#133

Post by twisteriffic »

cpursley wrote: post #41
jes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. My 2012 Tundra still runs well and looks good. The only issue is that over time the steering wheel has been polished smooth by all my driving over the years. I am at 160,000 miles and expect to get to at least 250,000.

My 1997 taco (Tacoma) had over 300k miles on it when I sold it. And it was still going strong. Literally zero mechanical issues, ever.

You'd be in the minority then. There are almost none of those left here, they all rusted away a decade ago because Toyota cheapest out on metal prep.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#134

Post by mminer237 »

NackerHughes wrote: post #68
ptek wrote: post #37

The annoying thing is that you see arcticles in paper and clips on tv that you have to upgrade all your old equipment from the 60s so you can "save energy". Who wants some iFridge/iOven when the equipment made in the 60s was built to survive two zombies apocalypse and one nuclear war and won't connect to the internet for a firmware update. Also the CIA can't hack your fridge so you get salmonella from your chicken be…

I am very curious as to whether the money you save in energy bills from today’s more ‘energy-efficient’ appliances outdoes the money spent in replacing the things so much more frequently. Older appliances may cost more to run but it’s possible they pay themselves off by virtue of not having to re-buy them every few years. Speculation, of course. I wonder if anyone’s done the math on this.

I did the math for my parents once for their 50+-year-old freezer using a Kill-A-Watt. Buying a similar, cheap, efficient modern freezer for paid for itself after 12 years, with an expected life of 11 years.

Of course, this was almost a decade ago, so the numbers might have changed; and a newer device would have an automatic defroster.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#135

Post by nerdbert »

laurencerowe wrote: post #44
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a good source of data on this? On the one hand, I could believe that newer cars have better engineering which makes many components more reliable. On the other hand, crumple zones and expensive bodywork mean that modern cars are Fabregé eggs that can be easily totaled in minor accidents. And increases in the complexity and scope of what cars do can increase the cost of maintenance and make them go obsolete f…

The average age of cars on the road in 2023 was 13.6 years up from 11.5 in 2015 and 9.9 in 2003. https://finance.yahoo.com/average-age-vehicles-u-roads-13030...

Does that tell us how reliable the cars are, or how much people are willing and/or able to spend on replacing their cars with new ones?

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#136

Post by destitude »

badpun wrote: post #103
NackerHughes wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very curious as to whether the money you save in energy bills from today’s more ‘energy-efficient’ appliances outdoes the money spent in replacing the things so much more frequently. Older appliances may cost more to run but it’s possible they pay themselves off by virtue of not having to re-buy them every few years. Speculation, of course. I wonder if anyone’s done the math on this.

Is anyone really having to re-buy appliances every few years? I bought all my appliances back in 2016 (dishwasher, washing machine, induction plate, owen with microwave, fridge, hot water boiler) and none of it broke yet. They're all from different brands, most were cheapest stuff available.

If you read the article that was probably the smarter thing to do is get the cheapest stuff available because yours likely had a lot less bells and whistles that would be more likely to break.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#137

Post by r2_pilot »

cesarb wrote: post #127
j45 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People move into new homes. Most people don’t, or don’t know how to make their appliances last much longer. For example the minimum of maintenance for water tanks, or changing air filters more often when your home has AC.

> People move into new homes. Don't people bring their appliances with them when moving?

The cost of moving some things outweigh their value. Particularly longer distances or on smaller vehicles.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#138

Post by Kon-Peki »

cesarb wrote: post #127
j45 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People move into new homes. Most people don’t, or don’t know how to make their appliances last much longer. For example the minimum of maintenance for water tanks, or changing air filters more often when your home has AC.

> People move into new homes. Don't people bring their appliances with them when moving?

Generally not in the US.

When you make an offer to buy a home, there will be a section that lists the furnishings/appliances/things-not-nailed-down that are included in your offer. Your real estate agent is going to check the boxes for appliances without even asking you. You could tell the agent not to do that, and the seller could say no. But that would be unusual.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#140

Post by justinclift »

idiotsecant wrote: post #128
a_gnostic wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thanks. In that case I prefer to build my own, so I know how to fix it myself. Some people and laws might take issue with that though.

There is no law that will prevent you from making a washing machine.

Preferably Open Source it too. :)
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