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Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

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Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#131

Post by nox101 »

dubcanada wrote: post #20
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

Google let's you put your progressive web app on the Google Play store so AFAIK there are tons of web apps on android and user's see them as apps

https://developers.google.com/codelabs/pwa-in-play#0

My apartment's app is just a website though on iOS that's provided as a webview app, not a PWA. I know because (a) the terms of service and privacy policy all refer to the website, not the app and (b) you can just go to the website and see it's exactly the same.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#132

Post by whyoh »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #67
cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

>you get ads

What do you mean? If the browser blocks ads, they'll be blocked in the PWA too, won't they?

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#133

Post by KronisLV »

I do wonder what the impact here might be on something like PWABuilder: https://www.pwabuilder.com/

It almost felt like we have a "good enough" solution for getting something running consistently across web browsers and mobile devices (when you absolutely don't have the resources for a separate mobile codebase or per-platform codebases), in a way where it could still be like an app that can be offered on the corresponding app stores.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#134

Post by Angostura »

cybrox wrote: post #51
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

Go on. Explain as you would for a layperson the advantages of a webapp over a regular web page.

I’ll go first - notifications. What else.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#135

Post by ufocia »

stephen_g wrote: post #100
djfdat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their hands are pretty much tied. That's called monopoly position.

It’s not a monopoly position by any legal (or really even useful) definition. In the EU they are 24% or so of phone shipments… This is more a “we want money from those users because they’re mostly rich” situations…

I agree that they should make it more of a luxury item in the EU and avoid all of this monopoly talk. If Apple were Bugatti we wouldn't be talking about it.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#136

Post by jsnell »

Dupe, with well over 1k comments across the stories and no new information:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39388218

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39408196

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39418412

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39386244

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39371119

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#137

Post by makeitdouble »

edandersen wrote: post #32

Presuming Apple left PWAs in just as they were with no changes, i.e. hardcoded to Safari, wouldn't Mozilla (and potentially MS) have immediately sued or complained that Apple was in violation of the DMA by not allowing their browser engines to launch from user added home screen icons? If this is the case then leaving PWAs as they stood risked bazillions in fines from the EU. No?

Apple had 15years to deal with alternative browser engines and they buried their head in the sand the whole time while racking in the money. Arguing it's hard to deal with all the cases within a few months is just giving them excuses for dragging their feet for so long.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#138

Post by endisneigh »

rasengan wrote: post #86
flappyeagle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is specifically for the EU market. I have a very hard time caring. I don’t think it makes much of a difference

We cannot have apps without Apple’s approval now.

Don’t buy apple products

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#139

Post by nox101 »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #67
cybrox wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't care because Apple has made sure they don't care. They have crippled web app adoption for years to push the app store and now argue that "well, only a few people use that anyways". How many apps in the app store are just webviews? I myself have paid apple to publish webview wrappers around pages because they strictly raise users to expect these, instead of the web apps they have no control over (and cann…

How many people use them on Android? Nobody around me... The Add to home prompt is "that thing you always click no or you get ads".

tons of apps are full of ads. Nearly every game on iOS has ads. PWA vs Apps has nothing to do with whether or not there will be ads.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#140

Post by madeofpalk »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

I don’t believe Apple “strangles” Safari to promote their App Store and protect its 30% cut.

There’s a mountain of web capabilities that Apple lead the charge and either invented the specs on, or adopted before others, on to make more native-like experiences for the web. I think things like backdrop-filter, position: sticky, and css snap points do a whole lot more to make websites feel like native app than stuff like WebMIDI.

I think there's plenty of 'malicious compliance' and pettiness in Apple's recent DMA stuff, but I do not think removing chromeless home screen bookmarks was one of them. I think they took a strict interpretation of the regulations and don't really care too much about them so just removed them.

I think Apple just has a different philosophy and priorities for their web platform, putting a higher value on privacy, performance, and efficiency than Chrome.

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