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German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

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Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#131

Post by greenavocado »

mschuster91 wrote: post #122
formerly_proven wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High taxes with no matching value behind them is undeniably a negative.

> High taxes with no matching value behind them That is not the case for Germany. We have - even with all its shortcomings - a decent education system that's largely free and accessible for everyone, a decent healthcare system, a decent public transport system on local, regional and federal system, and a very decent social security network that covers unemployment, pension and elderly care. The US in contrast has nei…

INOVA in Northern Virginia charges $3000 for an uncomplicated vaginal birth. They have a code which rolls up many services into that code. There are additional in-hospital expenses such as the newborn hearing test which aggregate to about $400. If you have insurance your maximum cost out of pocket for the calendar year is between 5 and 15 thousand dollars (insurance covers everything above it). If you can't pay it all at once there are charities and payment plans you can discuss with the provider. If you don't have insurance you can possibly negotiate the bill down sometimes drastically or if necessary declare Chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcy if you really can't pay the bills. Bankruptcy sounds scarier than it really is. Chapter 7 bankruptcy lasts about 3 months and Chapter 13 bankruptcy lasts about 5 years during which you pay everything above your normal average household expenses to a special account for the creditors. Medical debt is unsecured debt and can be defaulted on and purged by the court following bankruptcy proceedings. Bankruptcy is much more problematic in Europe for the individual. Americans can keep their assets in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Health insurance in America costs between $500-$1000 a month for an entire family.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#132

Post by Nextgrid »

mint2 wrote: post #130
Nextgrid wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's my problem with high taxation, as someone who got burnt by it by virtue of living and paying taxes in the UK. I don't mind paying my fair share of tax if it means I get good value out of it, but the state of our healthcare here means that in practice the public healthcare system is no longer fit for purpose, so we are being forced to pay for a system that doesn't work and end up having to go private (and…

Except there’s a lot of services that are unsuited to being delivered by competitive markets as it’s nearly impossible to prevent monopolization.

Agreed, although this can be addressed by appropriate regulation. However, the ultimate issue is that the government should do its job well, and whether it's the task of adequately regulating a market vs providing the service itself, the problem that there's no pressure it to do it well still remains.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#133

Post by ScoobleDoodle »

Nextgrid wrote: post #113
formerly_proven wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High taxes with no matching value behind them is undeniably a negative.

Yes, that's my problem with high taxation, as someone who got burnt by it by virtue of living and paying taxes in the UK. I don't mind paying my fair share of tax if it means I get good value out of it, but the state of our healthcare here means that in practice the public healthcare system is no longer fit for purpose, so we are being forced to pay for a system that doesn't work and end up having to go private (and…

Somehow in the USA these theoretical competitors that lower the profit margin and provide better service seem not to materialize. We end up with whole industries all of whose participants are funneling money to the executives and investors at the expense of customers and society. It’s such a broad issue that half of inflation is attributed to this corporate greed which is not being mitigated by the invisible hand of capitalist competition.

Without proper regulation and enforcement capitalism devolves to monopolies and oligopolies and eliminate competition and subdue market forces.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#134

Post by lupire »

greenavocado wrote: post #131
mschuster91 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High taxes with no matching value behind them That is not the case for Germany. We have - even with all its shortcomings - a decent education system that's largely free and accessible for everyone, a decent healthcare system, a decent public transport system on local, regional and federal system, and a very decent social security network that covers unemployment, pension and elderly care. The US in contrast has nei…

INOVA in Northern Virginia charges $3000 for an uncomplicated vaginal birth. They have a code which rolls up many services into that code. There are additional in-hospital expenses such as the newborn hearing test which aggregate to about $400. If you have insurance your maximum cost out of pocket for the calendar year is between 5 and 15 thousand dollars (insurance covers everything above it). If you can't pay it al…

Why do I pay $25K/yr for my family? Is yours high deductible?

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#135

Post by usr1106 »

ArmandGrillet wrote: post #37

Finally. Germany combines some of the worst aspects of the US (credit ranking, complicated abortion process, private healthcare if you want decent treatments) with the worst aspects of Europe (low digitalization, high taxation, recursive federalism: within the country and within the EU). A country like the Netherlands has its own issues (mainly housing) but doesn't have the myriad of pain points you can find in Germa…

German "public" healthcare is much more accessible and has much better coverage than its Finnish counterpart.

Despite Finland reapeatedly making headlines (including on HN) about being a Nordic welfare state.

Germans are typically complaining from a high level.

Source: Members of the wider family living in both countries. Some over 80 and needing a lot of healthcare services.

(I hear general practioners can be a problem in poorer areas in the East. My experiences are from a prosperous area in the West.)

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#136

Post by anonzzzies »

interactivecode wrote: post #99
ArmandGrillet wrote: post #37

Finally. Germany combines some of the worst aspects of the US (credit ranking, complicated abortion process, private healthcare if you want decent treatments) with the worst aspects of Europe (low digitalization, high taxation, recursive federalism: within the country and within the EU). A country like the Netherlands has its own issues (mainly housing) but doesn't have the myriad of pain points you can find in Germa…

Healthcare is kinda shit in The Netherlands. Long waiting lists even for simple things. Never actually prescribing medication but instead over prescribing paracetamol. Only being able to get a set amount for appointments regardless of actual need. Sure if you’re in a car crash and urgently need care they will help you without going bankrupt but anything less urgent good luck getting an appointment this week / month /…

I am dutch and have lived in quite a few countries in the eu and se asia: I would prefer to never have to deal with NL healthcare services again compared to other countries. And I have been (unfortunately) been in hospitals, a lot. Since the 90s NL is striving to become little USA policy wise and this is still getting worse. It’s a shit show.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#137

Post by shellfishgene »

jamesmunns wrote: post #120
javajosh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>low digitalization Given that everyone uses IBAN, and it works great, I strongly disagree. >private healthcare if you want decent treatments Your mileage may vary, but I was very impressed with the speed and ease of acquiring healthcare under a public plan. The lack of paperwork for seeing a new doctor is astonishing. The lack of copays, SOBs, and all that is like a breath of fresh air, and is worth copying in the U…

Low digitalization isn't just payment - it's also needing to fill in paper forms, or making in-person visits to government and business offices. I've been living in Germany for about a decade, and it is still behind in many of these items from when I left the US, and having a friend that recently moved from Germany to NL, he was blown away at how convenient and just not-hostile so many day to day interactions with go…

I agree, just look at the recent (well, decade-long?) attempt to digitalize the car registration process, which can only be called a total desaster.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#138

Post by dkekenflxlf »

greenavocado wrote: post #131
mschuster91 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High taxes with no matching value behind them That is not the case for Germany. We have - even with all its shortcomings - a decent education system that's largely free and accessible for everyone, a decent healthcare system, a decent public transport system on local, regional and federal system, and a very decent social security network that covers unemployment, pension and elderly care. The US in contrast has nei…

INOVA in Northern Virginia charges $3000 for an uncomplicated vaginal birth. They have a code which rolls up many services into that code. There are additional in-hospital expenses such as the newborn hearing test which aggregate to about $400. If you have insurance your maximum cost out of pocket for the calendar year is between 5 and 15 thousand dollars (insurance covers everything above it). If you can't pay it al…

500-1000 USD per month for a WHOLE family is fucking cheap!?

In Germany, i'm paying more than 1150€ per month as single (and im not privately insured but publicly)

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#140

Post by Ringz »

greenavocado wrote: post #131
mschuster91 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High taxes with no matching value behind them That is not the case for Germany. We have - even with all its shortcomings - a decent education system that's largely free and accessible for everyone, a decent healthcare system, a decent public transport system on local, regional and federal system, and a very decent social security network that covers unemployment, pension and elderly care. The US in contrast has nei…

INOVA in Northern Virginia charges $3000 for an uncomplicated vaginal birth. They have a code which rolls up many services into that code. There are additional in-hospital expenses such as the newborn hearing test which aggregate to about $400. If you have insurance your maximum cost out of pocket for the calendar year is between 5 and 15 thousand dollars (insurance covers everything above it). If you can't pay it al…

> INOVA in Northern Virginia charges $3000 for an uncomplicated vaginal birth. They have a code which rolls up many services into that code. There are additional in-hospital expenses such as the newborn hearing test which aggregate to about $400.

Free of charge in Germany

> If you have insurance your maximum cost out of pocket for the calendar year is between 5 and 15 thousand dollars (insurance covers everything above it).

In Germany, insurance covers everything over 0€. It depends on the insurance whether you have to pay extra for individual treatments (treatment methods without, or with disputed scientific evidence) or not. Rarely more than 100€. If expenses for illnesses exceed a certain amount in a year (about 3000€), it can be deducted from taxes.

> Health insurance in America costs between $500-$1000 a month for an entire family.

In Germany, it depends on your income how much the insurance costs for the entire family. 500-1000€ is also possible in Germany. But without all the extra expenses, negotiations with doctors, clinic, insurer, and bankruptcies...

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