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Cloud Egress Costs

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Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#131

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

api wrote: post #43
ozr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely lucrative enough. The use case you've described isn't particularly uncommon, but lots of companies just pay for the egress. The problem is that there are now multiple generations of software engineers that do not know how bandwidth is priced. They've only used managed providers that charge per unit of ingress/egress, at some fractional dollar per GB.

I’ve had people refuse to believe that bandwidth is actually very cheap and cloud markup is insane (hundreds or even thousands of times cost). I show them bare metal providers and colo that bills by size of pipe rather than transfer. They refuse to believe it or assume there must be a catch. There usually isn’t, though sometimes the very cheapest skimp on things like rich peering and can be slightly slower or less re…

Any recommended reading on how this stuff truly works? I feel like I understand the core protocols (tcp, ip, bgp, etc) not not how the internet is ‘built’

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#132

Post by zerr198 »

narimoney wrote: post #129
zerr198 wrote: post #85

We moved to AWS a few years ago, after self-hosting our own storage for years. What a nightmare.. The egress fees were killing us, so we had to find something else. Being weary of these large tech companies, and being that these days we're more privacy conscious as well. We found a new startup that outsources storage nodes to individuals / businesses. You have to install what they call a "relayer" on prem. The relaye…

what is the name of this startup? So i can read about it?

https://xns.tech

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#133

Post by acdha »

ehhthing wrote: post #103
Scubabear68 wrote: post #66

The article says “ Cloud providers charge for egress because it costs them money to send data out of their network. They have to pay for the infrastructure and bandwidth required to send data to users”. The charge is not based on cost in the case of the big names. They charge an arm and a leg because they want to keep you and your data on their platform. When you move it you are breaking free. Hence the high costs to…

> They charge an arm and a leg because they want to keep you and your data on their platform. When you move it you are breaking free. This isn't remotely true. The bandwidth alliance exists, and a lot of cloud companies are on the list: https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/bandwidth-alliance/ The actual answer is much more complicated. For example, Google Cloud offers two different bandwidth tiers: premium and standard.…

The bandwidth alliance exists to try to cut into AWS’ business. They could always have unilaterally cut rates closer to their cost but that margin was appealing, until they realized that they were never going to catch up with AWS without being cheaper.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#134

Post by Scubabear68 »

ehhthing wrote: post #103
Scubabear68 wrote: post #66

The article says “ Cloud providers charge for egress because it costs them money to send data out of their network. They have to pay for the infrastructure and bandwidth required to send data to users”. The charge is not based on cost in the case of the big names. They charge an arm and a leg because they want to keep you and your data on their platform. When you move it you are breaking free. Hence the high costs to…

> They charge an arm and a leg because they want to keep you and your data on their platform. When you move it you are breaking free. This isn't remotely true. The bandwidth alliance exists, and a lot of cloud companies are on the list: https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/bandwidth-alliance/ The actual answer is much more complicated. For example, Google Cloud offers two different bandwidth tiers: premium and standard.…

That’s an impressive word salad, but sorry, no. Egress costs are high strictly to keep you there.

This is why egress is dirt cheap on other platforms outside the big 3 cloud providers.

This is also why ingress is free.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#135

Post by toast0 »

zokier wrote: post #71

I wonder what would be the implications of AWS egress traffic increasing significantly (like order of magnitude). It is easy to rant about costs when you do not need to consider the consequences. Obviously AWS would need to build up their own network capacity, that's the easy part. More importantly they would need build up interchange infra too. This is the point I struggle to even imagine what the scale is like. Is…

> This got me also thinking, would operating some sort of spot market for traffic make sense to AWS?

Probably not, except in exceptional cases. I don't know how AWS manages their networks, but chances are they have a lot of spare capacity most of the time. And likely some major customers with location flexibility.

When I was a #1 customer of a different cloud, they had a fiber cut between one of their buildings and their IX PoP, and lost a sizable amount of capacity until the fiber was repaired. They asked us to move a ton of traffic, and we asked 'why us?' and the answer was basically if we moved that much traffic, none of their other customers needed to move anything, and we had the ability to move traffic quickly (and we had our lower bandwidth core service in the affected buildings that really couldn't move). I don't know how much Amazon retail and Amazon prime streaming use, but it could be significant and is almost certainly easy to move.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#136

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #101
nyc_data_geek wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty simple. Excessive egress costs = vendor lock in, and yes, forcing third party services into the same cloud (the walled garden), and limiting customer choice. Just another reason so many orgs are getting heartburn from going too deep too fast into the cloud.

Amazing: Cloudflare -- Free for most services OVH Cloud -- Free and unlimited Scaleway -- Free for most services Great: Hetzner 20-60 TB / mo per instance $1.08 Not bad: Linode 1-20 TB / mo per instance $5.00 Oracle Cloud 10 TB / mo $8.50 A bit much: Backblaze 3x the amount of data stored $10.00 Bunny CDN -- $10.00 DigitalOcean 100 GB - 10 TB / mo per instance $10.00 UpCloud 500 GB - 24 TB / mo per instance $10.77 Vu…

[deleted]

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#137

Post by dijit »

echelon wrote: post #101
nyc_data_geek wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty simple. Excessive egress costs = vendor lock in, and yes, forcing third party services into the same cloud (the walled garden), and limiting customer choice. Just another reason so many orgs are getting heartburn from going too deep too fast into the cloud.

Amazing: Cloudflare -- Free for most services OVH Cloud -- Free and unlimited Scaleway -- Free for most services Great: Hetzner 20-60 TB / mo per instance $1.08 Not bad: Linode 1-20 TB / mo per instance $5.00 Oracle Cloud 10 TB / mo $8.50 A bit much: Backblaze 3x the amount of data stored $10.00 Bunny CDN -- $10.00 DigitalOcean 100 GB - 10 TB / mo per instance $10.00 UpCloud 500 GB - 24 TB / mo per instance $10.77 Vu…

One thing we should all have a subtle understanding of: if you are a company selling infrastructure tooling as a service (Vercel, for example). You should probably try to avoid hyperscalers.

The adage is that you should outsource the things that are not your core competence. However if your product is infrastructure for developers then outsourcing that is going to be painful.

You are forced to pass down costs from your upstream supplier, and headroom is necessary (somewhat) because your provider can dictate terms essentially on a whim.

I feel like this is such an obvious statement, but we do seem to be in the gold-rush of avoiding responsibility so I'm not certain.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#138

Post by ksec »

Bandwidth Costs Around the World ( 2016 ). [1], I am wondering Cloudflare would get another update on it. How Bandwidth cost has come down over the past 8 years. And compare to Cloud Egress, which obviously haven't moved much at all. And the cost per port per Gbps over time.

[1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-costs-around-the-world...

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#139

Post by jeffbee »

Aeolun wrote: post #119
wrs wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t matter where your instance is, the point is the traffic will flow on Google’s worldwide private backbone until it gets very close to where it’s going.

You say that like its a service Google is providing, but it’s really just cheaper for them.

Explain that. Google egress is expensive because it is capable. You could operate a product like Zoom from it.

Re: Cloud Egress Costs

#140

Post by chatmasta »

breck-fresen wrote: post #125

One thing all the posts like this miss is you don't pay sticker price at modest scale. And if you're a whale who can move your workload around to generate competitive bids, you can negotiate prices down to cost + some fixed margin. The big guys also forecast their usage and make long-term commitments, which will yield savings beyond the advertised (e.g.) 3 year reserved instance pricing. Forecasting demand is a forei…

What is "at cost?" The cost to AWS is $/gbps (size of pipe), but they charge customers $/gb (stuff through the pipe). So if they're still charging you on the dimension of $/gb, you're probably getting ripped off no matter what they say about their "cost."
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