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Should error messages apologize? (2013)

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Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#131

Post by lelandfe »

bruce343434 wrote: post #114
rogual wrote: post #66

I don't even like "We" in UI messages. "We couldn't find that site." "We're just updating your computer." Perhaps I'm just an old fogey, but passive voice feels like the only right choice: "The site could not be found." "Your computer is being updated." The insertion of "We" feels like an imposition; the company who wrote the code reaching in and enacting their will with your equipment, using your screen as their soa…

"File could not be found; apologies have hereby been made"

“Finding-related incident has occurred during browsing”

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#132

Post by danielvaughn »

I always like to split error messages into two categories - developer-facing and user-facing. The former is geared towards diagnosis, the latter is an act of customer service. The two should never be intertwined - I see this happen way more often than I should.

When you present a user-facing error message, it's akin to admitting a failure of some kind. Whether it's a user error or a system error, the customer-centric position to take is that the responsibility always rests with the business. If the user made an error, then in theory it was the business's failure to prevent them from attempting to take that action. In practice of course, that's not always the case, but it's good practice to assume it by default. So I always like to include a "sorry", even if hypothetically it's not warranted.

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#133

Post by lainga »

kinj28 wrote: post #115

Completely tangent here but back in 2005 one of the early programs me and my cofounder wrote included a try catch which spitted out something like variable not found. We were just out of college and didn’t really pay much heed to the possibility of our code ever getting into the catch. And one of us had the variable christened as “baby”. Code went into production and one of user got the error message “baby not found”…

Reminds me of the panicked woman who hit F12 while on FB, saw the log message "forcing children into a div", and concluded she had discovered evidence of child abuse. I believe this was before FB printed the big ASCII art "STOP!" message to console.

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#134

Post by ragnese »

rogual wrote: post #66

I don't even like "We" in UI messages. "We couldn't find that site." "We're just updating your computer." Perhaps I'm just an old fogey, but passive voice feels like the only right choice: "The site could not be found." "Your computer is being updated." The insertion of "We" feels like an imposition; the company who wrote the code reaching in and enacting their will with your equipment, using your screen as their soa…

I'm also an old fogey by some metrics, but I don't relate to that sentiment very much.

I think that using "we" and "apologizing" is fair for most user-facing applications. It's kind of like the old adage: the customer is always right. Obviously the user wanted to accomplish something, and tried something to achieve it, but your software couldn't figure out what they wanted or didn't have enough information to do it, etc. So, it's kind of like a store clerk saying "I'm sorry; we're all out of that color dress."

Now, I would say this kind of "polite", human-centric, UI is not appropriate for e.g., sysadmin stuff like coreutils. I think it's perfectly fine if `cat /some/file` errors by saying "That file doesn't exist. Get bent."

Also, just to inject some unrelated cynicism... To your example about updating, I think with how pushy companies like Microsoft are with updates, it might actually be more accurate for them to say "We are updating your computer and enacting our will with your equipment."

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#135

Post by Cheer2171 »

dns_snek wrote: post #58
shellac wrote: post #19

> it would be more appropriate to "apologize" for something that would be considered solely the "fault" of the application Is this in part a US vs English difference? I used to work with somebody from Texas who was confused and irritated by the english use of 'sorry' for things they weren't responsible for. In english I suppose we use it out of politeness to express some sympathy, rather than necessarily as an apolog…

> I used to work with somebody from Texas who was confused and irritated by the english use of 'sorry' for things they weren't responsible for. Funerals must be bewildering for them. How do they phrase "I'm sorry for your loss"?

> How do they phrase "I'm sorry for your loss"?

You don't apologize, you sympathize and empathize. You say what you actually mean. It depends on if you know the deceased as well, but if you don't:

- I was so sad to hear about your loss.

- I am sending you my deepest condolences for your loss.

- I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

- May their memory be a blessing.

- May they rest in peace.

- They will be missed.

- I know you must be hurting. I am here for you if you need me.

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#136

Post by ragnese »

hbn wrote: post #109
rogual wrote: post #66

I don't even like "We" in UI messages. "We couldn't find that site." "We're just updating your computer." Perhaps I'm just an old fogey, but passive voice feels like the only right choice: "The site could not be found." "Your computer is being updated." The insertion of "We" feels like an imposition; the company who wrote the code reaching in and enacting their will with your equipment, using your screen as their soa…

I blame Google for popularizing that. Honestly it was fine enough for a YouTube error, "we couldn't find that video." But then everyone started copying it, including Microsoft who, in Windows 8, updated the blue screen of death to have a "whoopsie poopsie! Your computer has a widdle boo boo!" type message, accented with a :( sad face emoticon. Which I can guarantee was presented to countless people who lost real work…

I mentioned in another comment that the "apology" and humanization of the error messages doesn't bother me, but I have to admit that the frowny face and the infantilizing messages DOES make me irrationally irritated.

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#137

Post by ragnese »

layer8 wrote: post #112
rogual wrote: post #66

I don't even like "We" in UI messages. "We couldn't find that site." "We're just updating your computer." Perhaps I'm just an old fogey, but passive voice feels like the only right choice: "The site could not be found." "Your computer is being updated." The insertion of "We" feels like an imposition; the company who wrote the code reaching in and enacting their will with your equipment, using your screen as their soa…

“We” is a Microsoft-ism they started with Windows 10. Yes, it is horrible, because it puts the user into a minority position against an anonymous “we” that apparently controls the system. It has a belittling and patronizing tone that emphasizes the user being powerless and non-autonomous, who instead has to be taken care of by, and is at the mercy of, the anonymous “we”.

But isn't all of that 100% true? You ARE at the whim of Microsoft. Microsoft DOES control your computer if you are running Windows.

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#138

Post by [deleted] »

ragnese wrote: post #134
rogual wrote: post #66

I don't even like "We" in UI messages. "We couldn't find that site." "We're just updating your computer." Perhaps I'm just an old fogey, but passive voice feels like the only right choice: "The site could not be found." "Your computer is being updated." The insertion of "We" feels like an imposition; the company who wrote the code reaching in and enacting their will with your equipment, using your screen as their soa…

I'm also an old fogey by some metrics, but I don't relate to that sentiment very much. I think that using "we" and "apologizing" is fair for most user-facing applications. It's kind of like the old adage: the customer is always right. Obviously the user wanted to accomplish something, and tried something to achieve it, but your software couldn't figure out what they wanted or didn't have enough information to do it,…

[deleted]

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#139

Post by jvanderbot »

rogual wrote: post #66

I don't even like "We" in UI messages. "We couldn't find that site." "We're just updating your computer." Perhaps I'm just an old fogey, but passive voice feels like the only right choice: "The site could not be found." "Your computer is being updated." The insertion of "We" feels like an imposition; the company who wrote the code reaching in and enacting their will with your equipment, using your screen as their soa…

There's a difference of what is broke that matters. I'm playing out cases in my head ...

If I visit a website, "They" broke.

If my phone crashes, "It" broke.

My phone shouldn't say "we" - I don't grok the idea of people in there.

The website should say "we" - It's an organization presenting data, and I do believe there are people behind it.

My car shouldn't say "we" - My car is an "it", a thing that lives in my garage and I drive around.

NVIDIA drivers shouldn't say "we" - I'm running the program. I'm the agent. If anything, when I check for drivers, it should say "they have an update ready". The program is executing on my machine. It's mine. "They" are the people who publish updates. "We" (program and I) go fetch and install them.

But programs don't have agency - so if "it" can't fetch "their" update, then "Update could not be fetched" conveys all the info I need to know.

Then there's the "simpy" problem of always apologizing. For this reason I like TFA's final recommendation:

> Use the word “sorry” only in error messages that result in serious problems for the user (for example, data loss or inability to use the computer). Don’t apologize if the issue occurred during the normal functioning of the program (for example, if the user needs to wait for a network connection to be found).

Re: Should error messages apologize? (2013)

#140

Post by EvanAnderson »

bjackman wrote: post #24

I think prefixing with "sorry," is a good idea but I really hate cutesy error messages. I feel the Chrome dinosaur kicked those off, and I do (did?) like the dino. But "it's not you, it's us" is very annoying. "We made a booboo UwU". When something has gone wrong I really don't want to feel I'm being marketed to, I just want information!

A thousand times this. Cutesy error messages make me feel like the developer doesn't take my use of the product seriously. It's wildly unprofessional.
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