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USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

uscis.gov

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Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#131

Post by nmca »

tziki wrote: post #90
jedberg wrote: post #4

It seems like it would be so easy to fix the H1-B program but no one wants to and I feel like I must be missing something. The purpose of the H1-B is to allow companies to hire foreigners with special skills that can't be found amongst US citizens. So why not just grant H1-Bs to the companies that are willing to pay their talent the most? Let any company apply and list a salary which they have to agree to pay for at…

Salaries vary by field. You can be an incredibly talented animation artist but you'll still get paid less than the average software engineer.

right, but that's approximately because one is less valuable modulo the adjustment period and some noise.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#132

Post by fooker »

ycitizen wrote: post #13
CPLX wrote: post #3

This is interesting. Does anyone know what tactics they’re trying to stop? Sounds like something specific.

I think USCIS is trying to fix one common misuse by certain applicants where he /she applies for H1B through more than one employers ( typically body shop companies) and tries to increase his\her odds of getting the visa. Sometimes the applicant gets more than one H1B visa and wasting the limited visas.

No, this is totally allowed. If you can get more than one legit offer, you can apply more than once.

What isn't allowed is the same company applying for you through multiple subsidiaries or contracting agencies.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#133

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

sgjohnson wrote: post #125
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for many people from oversubscribed countries (like India and China), marrying a US citizen is the ONLY viable path to a green card. That's obviously not true, by both analysis and observation.

How so? There’s a 100+ year wait on EB2 and EB3 Green Cards for people born in India. Only 7% of GCs can go to people of any one country. At the current cap of 49000, it means only 3400 EB2 GCs can actually be issued to Indians per year. An approved application doesn’t equate to a green card actually minted and issued. There’s a 12 year backlog on applications alone. ( https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal…

>There’s a 100+ year wait on EB2 and EB3 Green Cards for people born in India.

No-one knows what the actual wait period is until the priority date for applications established - this is all based off estimates and extrapolations. A priority date is not a backlog in applications - it's the date which, if you applied before then, that you can file for adjustment-of-status which is more or less a pro-forma process.

The link you've provided shows a priority date of 2012 for people born in India looking for EB-2 visas. Priority dates for that combination have had implied wait times of between about 8 and 12 years since 2014.

EB-1 visas have priority dates in 2020.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#134

Post by nmca »

karmasimida wrote: post #28
jedberg wrote: post #4

It seems like it would be so easy to fix the H1-B program but no one wants to and I feel like I must be missing something. The purpose of the H1-B is to allow companies to hire foreigners with special skills that can't be found amongst US citizens. So why not just grant H1-Bs to the companies that are willing to pay their talent the most? Let any company apply and list a salary which they have to agree to pay for at…

> So why not just grant H1-Bs to the companies that are willing to pay their talent the most? Because industries pay differently. Unless you argue H1Bs all go to big techs. The problem with H1B program is, no matter how it is structured, it WILL be gamed.

The point is that paying more isn't gaming the system

(and to be super explicit, yes if the US were to choose to allocate 25k annual h1b by ranked wage & thus all 25k were to go to various flavours of computer programmer or financial modeller, that seems totally fine)

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#135

Post by kube-system »

29athrowaway wrote: post #103
dalyons wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because chemistry and IT/swe are not the same jobs. And America also needs chemists

If there is more demand for chemists, the wages will go up which in turn will incentivize more Americans to pursue being chemist as a career.

To a point, they will. However, the amount they can rise is capped by other economic factors. e.g. If wage pressure goes beyond a businesses ability to pay, they can't hire. This then leads to businesses ceasing operations and hiring nobody.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#136

Post by bilekas »

hirvi74 wrote: post #109
tomrod wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some pushback on your logic chain: > foreigners with special skills that can't be found amongst US citizens This is honestly rare, unless you couple it with a wage level that is lower than the domestic market will bear. Some individuals involved in R&D, but outside of that there are few skills that are not found in the US. I believe the condition isn't not found, but rather, in low supply? > make the visa transferrab…

In my experience, the special skills that many foreigners tend to have that many Americans do not is the ability to tolerate absolute and utter bullshit. I'm not kidding. I am not satisfied with my job/employer -- bad environment, bad culture, etc.. I have coworkers from all over. Of the non-US native ones that I interact with, they all absolutely love our job and/or employer. I've asked them about it, and I generall…

> In my experience, the special skills that many foreigners tend to have that many Americans do not is the ability to tolerate absolute and utter bullshit. I'm not kidding.

This actually made me giggle a little bit and while I have seen this, what I've seen more of is that a company hiring internally has offshore employees who have a vast amount of company specific info and experience that the company simply can't hire for. That only applies to internal transfers of course but it's what I see the most of.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#137

Post by CalRobert »

tivert wrote: post #115
jedberg wrote: post #4

It seems like it would be so easy to fix the H1-B program but no one wants to and I feel like I must be missing something. The purpose of the H1-B is to allow companies to hire foreigners with special skills that can't be found amongst US citizens. So why not just grant H1-Bs to the companies that are willing to pay their talent the most? Let any company apply and list a salary which they have to agree to pay for at…

> So why not just grant H1-Bs to the companies that are willing to pay their talent the most? As others have pointed out, you're assuming highest salary == most valuable, but what your idea will lead to is a bunch of talented people working on new ways to get people to click ads or write yet-another trading algorithm. IMHO, you'd fix the H1-B program by doing two things: 1. Eliminate the requirement that the visa-hol…

I have the opposite experience, I guess, as a US citizen who immigrated to Ireland, but after putting in my two years with the company that sponsored me and getting the right to work without sponsorship I left within a month for a 50% raise (actually more like 150% but I got lucky on stock) and full remote (before full remote was normal).

A lot of the appeal of an immigrant is that they can't quit or take a better deal.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#138

Post by sgjohnson »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #133
sgjohnson wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? There’s a 100+ year wait on EB2 and EB3 Green Cards for people born in India. Only 7% of GCs can go to people of any one country. At the current cap of 49000, it means only 3400 EB2 GCs can actually be issued to Indians per year. An approved application doesn’t equate to a green card actually minted and issued. There’s a 12 year backlog on applications alone. ( https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal…

> There’s a 100+ year wait on EB2 and EB3 Green Cards for people born in India. No-one knows what the actual wait period is until the priority date for applications established - this is all based off estimates and extrapolations. A priority date is not a backlog in applications - it's the date which, if you applied before then, that you can file for adjustment-of-status which is more or less a pro-forma process. The…

> EB-1 visas have priority dates in 2020.

Very few people qualify for an EB-1. They are far out of reach for most people.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#139

Post by kube-system »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #116
dalyons wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because chemistry and IT/swe are not the same jobs. And America also needs chemists

Based on pay, I would guess chemists aren't in demand.

Based on pay, you'd think childcare is in low demand and astronomers are in high demand. But that would be wrong.

Re: USCIS announces strengthened integrity measures for H-1B program

#140

Post by red_admiral »

quatrefoil wrote: post #51
0xcde4c3db wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing you're "missing" is that it absolutely is, in practice, about laundering low-wage foreign labor. It's not actually complicated. It's obfuscation of exploitation. Same as it ever was. You're just not supposed to believe that your country is doing that.

A lion's share of H-1Bs go to big tech companies where people make $250k a year or more. And where total comp of $400k+ is common for senior roles, with no regard for visa status. Yes, it alters market dynamics and the whole reason it's done is that the same skills are not available domestically for that price (or at all) - but talking about "low-wage labor" and "exploitation" as the whole point of the program is pre…

I'm going to disagree here. Looking just at tech, it's possible to have huge compensation and still exploitative working conditions, like unofficial expectations of unlimited overtime and being available 24/7 and putting up with abuse from others in the company.

Rachelbythebay wrote about this in 2018: https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2018/09/08/visa/ if your company decides they don't want you anymore, you have _ten days_ to get a new sponsored job or be out of the country. If you're being bullied or harassed or otherwise treated badly and your employer knows full well they can have you kicked out of the country in under two weeks, would you really speak up?

For an extreme example, see Susan J Fowler's https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on... . Fowler had the luck to be a US citizen, so she could go public without being deported. (She also says she got another job offer less than a week later.) Would the next person in this situation, but on a H-1B visa be able to do the same?

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