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HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

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Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#131

Post by prepend »

Teever wrote: post #121
prepend wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incidence of these cancers is much lower than cervical cancer. I think a more practical benefit to boys is the prevention of many strains of general warts and general herpes.

This vaccine does not prevent herpes.

Yes, you’re right, sorry.

The vaccine prevents against up to 9 HPV, including many genital wart [0] strains.

So I was wrong about herpes but my point was that it protects males against STIs and is just a handy vaccine to protect sexually active men against something they don’t want (some genital warts) and that seems like a greater motivator than reducing transmission to protect women from cervical cancer.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccine

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#132

Post by mensetmanusman »

ahazred8ta wrote: post #109
mensetmanusman wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$300 per dose * 100,000:1, so about $30 million per cancer cure that has a 70% survival rate. Up to the voters I guess.

The lifetime risk of ever getting cervical cancer is about 1%. So, $30,000 per prevention if you just count the girls, or $60k if you vaccinate the boys as well.

0.00001% of the US population dies each year of cervical cancer.

The cost to vaccinate all americans is on the order of $100B.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#133

Post by bigbillheck »

TylerE wrote: post #72
londons_explore wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many vaccines become 'perfect' by causing the disease they treat to die out in the local community. It doesn't need to be perfect at the individual level to cause that - and in fact many vaccines at the individual level actually have pretty bad metrics - like for example only preventing half of cases.

You're seeing this in vivo with polio - POLIO!! - starting to make a reappearance in some of the more extremist Hassidic communes in NYC. Those groups do not get vaccines.

Polio's complicated because of the differences between the vaccines meaning that external vigilance will be needed even with 100% coverage.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#134

Post by rootusrootus »

burnished wrote: post #125
rootusrootus wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does 12 sound arbitrary to you? Because it is? > they felt the need to draw the line somewhere to prevent hypothetical five year olds > probably the sense that at 12 I think you get the point. 12 is entirely arbitrary. Some children might well be able to make sound choices like this at that age. Some definitely will not. You're advocating for a line at which parents lose their right to be parents while maintain…

Yes, I get the point that you couldn't muster an actual argument so resorted to an overly broad question that intentionally ignored context. And I'm not advocating for anything, I just hate the insincerity that comes from people asking questions like that. Its also a little whiffy that you're trotting out the 'some kids will make good choices' bit with regards to this age range and the ability to ask a doctor for a v…

> Yes, I get the point that you couldn't muster an actual argument

Don't be a dick. It was a legitimate question. And no amount of insinuations or insults on your part changes that. Your points are very weak for someone advocating for getting the gov't more deeply involved in everyone's affairs.

And if you don't think some 12 year olds are wildly incapable of making good medical choices, I don't know what to say.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#135

Post by fwungy »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #101
alfor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Study like this are very good to push government to pay vaccination to all kids as early as possible. In Québec they did the vaccination to all the kids at 12yo, boys and girls.

$300 per dose * 100,000:1, so about $30 million per cancer cure that has a 70% survival rate. Up to the voters I guess.

A policy simply doing -some- good is not sufficient justification given a finite amount of resources to implement it. You need to compare policies against the alternative uses of the resources.

Neither is the fact that "lives will be saved" a sufficient justification. You need to compare that against the lives saved with the alternative policy options available with the given resources.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#136

Post by fwungy »

ceejayoz wrote: post #63
logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It's still the riskiest pharmaceutical product the average young person will take. That'll almost certainly be Tylenol. > No other pharmaceutical product has been deemed so risky that it couldn't exist unless people were prevented from suing its manufacturers. That's not why the program exists. It was deemed risky for the national security of the United States to lose its ability to manufacture vaccines because twe…

I don't let my children do either.

Imagine trading a low risk in the distant future for a low risk in the present for a healthy child?

Any business person knows things that potentially happen in the distant future are to be heavily discounted, while present day risks carry full values.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#137

Post by groestl »

prepend wrote: post #116
inasio wrote: post #6

Reminder that HPV in men has a similar association to oral/anal cancer, and this vaccine (ideally the quadrivalent version) prevents it too [0]. HPV vaccine campaigns often emphasize vaccinating only girls, but boys should be vaccinated too. [0] https://academic.oup.com/jnci/advance-article-abstract/doi/1...

The incidence of these cancers is much lower than cervical cancer. I think a more practical benefit to boys is the prevention of many strains of general warts and general herpes.

5-year survival rate of throat cancer is 82%, 5-year survival rate of cervical cancer is 92%, and incidence of HPV-related throat cancers among men is higher than cervical cancer on it's own and rising (probably due to changes in sexual behavior) [0]. While total incidence of HPV related cancers is higher in women than in men and that's bad enough, there is not a lot of difference. It's a problem on its own.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/parents/cancer.html

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#138

Post by prepend »

groestl wrote: post #137
prepend wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incidence of these cancers is much lower than cervical cancer. I think a more practical benefit to boys is the prevention of many strains of general warts and general herpes.

5-year survival rate of throat cancer is 82%, 5-year survival rate of cervical cancer is 92%, and incidence of HPV-related throat cancers among men is higher than cervical cancer on it's own and rising (probably due to changes in sexual behavior) [0]. While total incidence of HPV related cancers is higher in women than in men and that's bad enough, there is not a lot of difference. It's a problem on its own. [0] http…

It’s the incidence that is important here. So while there’s higher survivability for cervical cancer, there are many more deaths. (At least until this vaccine)

So people are concerned with the risk of having throat cancer more than the risk of death if they get it. And this seems reasonable. As I have a very high risk of death in many improbable situations and I care more about lower risk of death in very common situations.

10k cases of throat cancer in men each year in the US [0]. Although HPV-related cancer, oropharynx, is less than that and harder for me to find a good incident rate. Almost 14k cases of cervical cancer in women each year in the US [1]

[0] https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/laryngeal-and-hypopharyn...

[1] https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/cervical-cancer/about/ke...

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#139

Post by ksenzee »

prepend wrote: post #118
ksenzee wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you’ve been monogamous but are now getting divorced, or whatever. Not that uncommon.

It’s actually kind of frustrating how expensive that vaccine is (>$1000) as there’s no incentive to reduce cost. And if you’re 45, then insurance won’t cover. Even if you test negative for hpv.

Ugh, I didn’t realize that. I got in just under the wire at 44—guess I’m glad my ex left when he did?

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#140

Post by ceejayoz »

fwungy wrote: post #136
ceejayoz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's still the riskiest pharmaceutical product the average young person will take. That'll almost certainly be Tylenol. > No other pharmaceutical product has been deemed so risky that it couldn't exist unless people were prevented from suing its manufacturers. That's not why the program exists. It was deemed risky for the national security of the United States to lose its ability to manufacture vaccines because twe…

I don't let my children do either. Imagine trading a low risk in the distant future for a low risk in the present for a healthy child? Any business person knows things that potentially happen in the distant future are to be heavily discounted, while present day risks carry full values.

> Any business person knows things that potentially happen in the distant future are to be heavily discounted, while present day risks carry full values.

Any parent knows that a business folding and a child dying aren't quite the same thing.

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