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Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

arxiv.org

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Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#131

Post by adrianN »

forinti wrote: post #126
jmcqk6 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the work of Ilya Prigogine - he won a Nobel prize in the 70's for his work on self-organizing complexity. There is a selection force in the universe for increasing complexity, being driven by the dissipation of energy. When you have systems in non-equilibrium, there is a strong pressure to explore the possibility space to find ever more efficient ways to dissipate energy. A bacteria the size of a grain of s…

The Sun outputs 3.9 x 10^26W, but it weighs ~10^30kg, so that would mean 10^-4W/kg. Human beings are closer to 1W/kg at rest.

Now do a lump of plutonium.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#132

Post by calamari4065 »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #124
lachlan_gray wrote: post #79

It's fascinating to me that the complexity of life always goes up. Outside extinction events, complex life generally seems to become more favourable over time. It's interesting that (to my knowledge) we don't see an ecosystem lose complexity in its entirety unless it's dying. Simple organisms make a bedrock for complex organisms, and while the complex organisms have more specific needs, they are better at exploring,…

> It's fascinating to me that the complexity of life always goes up. A lot of lifeforms evolve to be more simple, not more complex -- I think what you have is sort of a distribution of complexity, and as life continues to evolve, the upper bound keeps getting pushed up as some organisms push the boundary of complexity, but I don't think it's at all true that in general life involves to be more complex.

Single-celled organisms are almost infinitely more complex than, say a self-replicating RNA molecule. That again is vastly more complex than a protein or an amino acid. Similarly, a human is nearly infinitely more complex than a single-celled organism.

Evolution causes organisms to fill an ecological niche. Simple niches for simple organisms will always exist, and simple life will always exist, even as the upper bounds of organic complexity trend unerringly upward.

Life tends toward complexity, but that doesn't obviate the need for simple organisms.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#134

Post by r721 »

tobbe2064 wrote: post #35

This reminds me. There was a paper published a couple of years ago and posted here on HN that actually calculated the probability of life aminoacid-based life emerging. Based on the complexity of the chain needed to start replicating. The conclusion was that it was vanishingly small in the observable universe but only close to 0 in the full universe. I've since tried to find it without luck. Does anybody here know wh…

Probably not this one, but it's on related topic:

>There’s plenty of time for evolution (2010)

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1016207107

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#135

Post by MetallicDragon »

Cacti wrote: post #15
ta8645 wrote: post #5

Can't help but wonder, is AI an expected phase transition in the evolution of life in the universe? Is life really just the larval stage of a higher order intelligence?

AI is not intelligent, even in the abstract sense

Using what definition of intelligence?

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#136

Post by keithwhor »

knome wrote: post #125
bmitc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is that they are one in the same, or better to say that entropy is the process that drives life. In that, life grows in complexity in order to dissipate heat (i.e., increase entropy) more efficiently. Just look at Earth. Life is incredibly complex but is ultimately driving everything towards dust.

>life grows in complexity in order to dissipate heat This seems silly on the level of the anthropic principle. It's like claiming a calculator exists to use up electricity. We're eddies in the flow of energy from high to low entropy because it's free energy. We create more entropy in capturing energy than we capture because it's impossible not to. There's no purpose for life there. It's just where life lives.

> It's like claiming a calculator exists to use up electricity.

sighs in bitcoin

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#137

Post by conesus »

adrianN wrote: post #131
forinti wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Sun outputs 3.9 x 10^26W, but it weighs ~10^30kg, so that would mean 10^-4W/kg. Human beings are closer to 1W/kg at rest.

Now do a lump of plutonium.

How did that lump of plutonium become a lump? That part wasn’t natural.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#138

Post by libeclipse »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #84

Reading the introductory paragraph to the paper, it sounds like a rehash of Kaufmann's (very good) book "At Home in the Universe", which at this point is almost 30 years old. Not sure what this paper adds, but will read it to find out. The thesis of Kaufmann's book is that the emergence of life, given supporting conditions (variety of source chemicals in environment, sources of energy, maybe water/mixing) is all but…

Did you see the authors of the paper?

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#139

Post by jmcqk6 »

forinti wrote: post #126
jmcqk6 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the work of Ilya Prigogine - he won a Nobel prize in the 70's for his work on self-organizing complexity. There is a selection force in the universe for increasing complexity, being driven by the dissipation of energy. When you have systems in non-equilibrium, there is a strong pressure to explore the possibility space to find ever more efficient ways to dissipate energy. A bacteria the size of a grain of s…

The Sun outputs 3.9 x 10^26W, but it weighs ~10^30kg, so that would mean 10^-4W/kg. Human beings are closer to 1W/kg at rest.

Wow, that's a great way of describing this! Definitely noted for future use.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#140

Post by huqedato »

tldr: the article proposes a new way to understand the origin of life. It combines two scientific ideas to explain how life emerges naturally as a part of the universe's evolution. Key concepts include how chemicals interact and support each other to create life, and the idea that life continuously explores new possibilities. The article challenges the traditional view of separating the physical and informational parts of living cells, suggesting a more integrated approach to studying life's beginnings and development.
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