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Self-driving as a case study for AGI

karpathy.github.io

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Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#131

Post by gitfan86 »

pdimitar wrote: post #119

I don't trust any discussion on this topic anymore. When I was much younger, "AI" was what "AGI" is now. Now people started using "AGI" for "cars with several sensors and okay algorithms for collision detection" and then you have loud advocates going on obviously logically broken rants about the nature of "actual" intelligence -- and those are philosophical and not scientific. But still, we don't have anything even 1…

Sounds like you are looking for an Android in the style of BladeRunner. That would be cool, but I don't understand why you are against LLMs and FSD being labeled as AI. They are using neural networks to generate content and drive cars in ways that humans find valuable.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#132

Post by pdimitar »

gitfan86 wrote: post #131
pdimitar wrote: post #119

I don't trust any discussion on this topic anymore. When I was much younger, "AI" was what "AGI" is now. Now people started using "AGI" for "cars with several sensors and okay algorithms for collision detection" and then you have loud advocates going on obviously logically broken rants about the nature of "actual" intelligence -- and those are philosophical and not scientific. But still, we don't have anything even 1…

Sounds like you are looking for an Android in the style of BladeRunner. That would be cool, but I don't understand why you are against LLMs and FSD being labeled as AI. They are using neural networks to generate content and drive cars in ways that humans find valuable.

They are semi-valuable. There are tons of posts out there demonstrating GPT writing code that compiles but is utterly wrong, for example.

Using NNs is just a first step. To me labeling this as actual intelligence is childishly rushing into conclusions.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#133

Post by famouswaffles »

jpnc wrote: post #71
krisoft wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Do you think we can’t make an LLM which picks a favourite song and writes about it with the gusto a person does? What is this example supposed to illustrate?

We clearly can, but not with gusto. LLM can't feel gusto about anything. If the point is that it doesn't matter as long as a person reading it is convinced there is gusto, then my point is that the 'opinion' of such a thing is irrelevant.

This is circular reasoning. LLMs can't feel gusto because they can't feel gusto. You have any way to measure "gusto" that we're all aware of ?

If other humans ascribing the quality of something you can't properly define isn't enough then you clearly don't care about what a LLM does or does not have, only what you are convinced it doesn't have.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#134

Post by ImHereToVote »

1oooqooq wrote: post #124
ImHereToVote wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. How did you come to ask that question? I never mentioned how I code.

you "coded" in quotes, as in you had to think a lot about how to translate the problem to the machine. you are pretty much a compiler for ai or something.

I think you might be confused. Perhaps you confused me with someone else?

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#135

Post by tim333 »

quonn wrote: post #109

I can, in principle, take someone from a group of uncontacted peoples, put them into New York and let them figure out how to drive and they likely will be able to do it after not too much time. We are not even close to any technology that could figure out driving having never been built for it.

The humans have probably been learning how to negotiate the physical world for a decade or more. Also humans have evolved to be good at that stuff. That self driving tech also has to be designed and trained is sort of a similar deal.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#136

Post by randomdata »

gitfan86 wrote: post #120
steveBK123 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where have LLM AIs made measurable economic impacts that weren't already using some form of AI to start with (translation, legal, content farms, marketing, robotics)?

SubReddits for copywriting and graphic design and digital art are full of people talking about how the amount of gig work available has dropped off.

Software developers on HN are saying the same thing. I don't see much evidence that AI has changed the game such that it would cause the work to dry up, though. In fact, I am surprised it hasn't created more work exploring the possibilities of new AI APIs.

But when you can get 5% returns just by sticking your money in the bank, why would you bother investing in software, where 99¢ is considered an exorbitant cost by its customers? That is no doubt why all of these creative industries are on the decline. There is, generally speaking, no money to be made.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#137

Post by gitfan86 »

pdimitar wrote: post #132
gitfan86 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you are looking for an Android in the style of BladeRunner. That would be cool, but I don't understand why you are against LLMs and FSD being labeled as AI. They are using neural networks to generate content and drive cars in ways that humans find valuable.

They are semi-valuable. There are tons of posts out there demonstrating GPT writing code that compiles but is utterly wrong, for example. Using NNs is just a first step. To me labeling this as actual intelligence is childishly rushing into conclusions.

It isn't "Actual Intelligence" it is Artificial Intelligence. The whole point of this article is that we should separate the philosophical argument about "What is intelligence" from the work of automation with Neural Networks.

My preference is that we declare AGI to have been completed at AlphaZero. And now the people who want to work on replicating human intelligence can specifically say that is what they are working on, "Human Intelligence Replication" And people who want to use Neural Networks to automate parts of the economy and increase productivity can work on "Neural Network Functionality and Automation"

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#138

Post by PeterisP »

pdimitar wrote: post #119

I don't trust any discussion on this topic anymore. When I was much younger, "AI" was what "AGI" is now. Now people started using "AGI" for "cars with several sensors and okay algorithms for collision detection" and then you have loud advocates going on obviously logically broken rants about the nature of "actual" intelligence -- and those are philosophical and not scientific. But still, we don't have anything even 1…

I don't know how much long ago was "When I was much younger" but even if we go as far back as the 1960s and look at the Artificial Intelligence scientific literature of that time, you'd find the understanding of what the terms they defined back then to be something far closer to what we have now, not your expectation of "the general AI that you can put in a robot body and it can learn to clean, cook, repair and chat with you"; and the philosophy has always been a key part of the science of AI even before I was born.

I'm not seeing any drift of terms here - the only thing that seems to be happening for AI and AGI terms is correcting for what has happened in the sci-fi media and bringing the usage back to what it always has been in the computer science literature, now that it's closer to reality than mere fiction.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#139

Post by tim333 »

He seems to be talking mostly about the impact on society

>When your Waymo is driving through the streets of SF, you’ll see many people look at it as an oddity... Then they seem to move on with their lives.

>When full autonomy gets introduced in other industries....they might stare and then shrug...

Which I guess is ok on a small scale but if AGI starts to replace all human jobs it will have a different effect to Waymo firing some drivers and hiring AI researchers.

Re: Self-driving as a case study for AGI

#140

Post by vacuity »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #103
latexr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You basically get sucked into a "what has AI ever done for us?" style debate analogous to Monty Python's Life of Brian. Except today the bit (which wasn’t really a debate in the sketch because everyone agreed) would start with real current negatives such as accelerating the spread of misinformation and getting artists fired. In your analogy, it would be as if they were asking “what have the Romans ever done for us”…

I don't consider people having to adjust a negative. We don't have a right to never have to adjust or adapt to a changing world. Things change, people adapt. Well some of them. The rest just gets old and dies off. Artists will be fine; so will everybody else. If anything, people will have a lot more time to do artistic things. More than ever probably and possibly at a grander scale that past generations of artists co…

While I agree that issues such as artists not being able to support themselves or rampant misinformation are ultimately contingent on social issues, I think we should try to mitigate the negative impact of AI in the meantime. Otherwise, there will be lasting consequences that won't be retroactively fixed by adapting.

Also, it may be that having powerful AI tools worsens the social problem by normalizing the generated art/misinformation.

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