Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#131

Post by falcolas » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

itishappy wrote: post #67

NDizzle wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And then when you left, did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? Did you have stops along the way to add fuel in a reasonable amount of time? Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? I want EVs to be there too, but they just aren't.

> did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? My ICE almost stranded me during the recent freeze. Conditions affect fuel economy for all vehicles. > Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? This feels like an imagined problem. EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. If you end up off the road during a storm (been there) an EV will last longer for the same fill level. They also…

> EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs.

Given that ICEs take advantage of waste heat - which they will have in abundance as long as the engine is running - I disagree. Especially since many EVs still use resistive heating (the F150 Lightning and some Tesla models, for example).

And even vehicles with heat pumps will have to use backup resistive heating on really cold days, since they have a lower limit where they can operate.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#132

Post by Kon-Peki » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #116

Kon-Peki wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, when this problem was happening in Chicago, the temperature was a lot colder than Oslo. Like -30°C with a wind chill approaching -50°C. That's not "cold weather", that's "insanely cold weather". According to Wikipedia, it has never been anywhere close to that cold in Oslo. And yet, due to the climate change effect on the arctic jet stream, Chicago sees this kind of temperature for a few days in 2-3 out o…

Is the wind chill more than marginally relevant to a car? People lose heat through evaporation, which is worse if there's wind. Objects don't, and normal wind speeds are usually well below driving speeds anyway.

When the car is stopped and trying to warm the battery so it can begin fast charging, the wind makes the vehicle surface dissipate heat better. Which you don't want. But... batteries are fairly insulated so wind chill probably has a marginal effect at best. I was just emphasizing how much colder it was in Chicago than in Oslo :)

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#133

Post by engineer_22 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

smileysteve wrote: post #117

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quick, someone tell that small rural community of 600 people they need public transportation! When people express opinions like this you immediately know they live in the city and think everyone else does too.

Unless you look back 70 years and realize that many small towns only existed because they had rail (passenger and goods). (and/or private bus service). Turns out, getting your goods to market before every person had a car was a requirement.

I think that puts the cart before the horse. Why build a railroad to no-where? Surely the small towns pre-existed the railroad.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#134

Post by falcolas » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 4:40 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #17

doubleg72 wrote: post #12

Okay.. Gas car owners confronted a hard foe in Calgary this week too: frozen gas pumps.

-50 is a different world compared to -5. But now I’m curious how an EV would handle being an outdoor car in -50 windchill.

Windchill doesn't affect vehicles, since it's based on additional cooling caused by wind-driven evaporation. The base temperature would matter more.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#135

Post by GiorgioG » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 4:50 PM UTC

engineer_22 wrote: post #118

_ea1k wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of cold towns in the US that didn't have the same issues as Chicago. There's more to it than just "Cold weather". TBH, perhaps the more general problem is that EVs aren't fully ready for dense cities yet. Or maybe dense cities aren't ready for EVs.

I think it is just people needing to get ready for EVs. Care and maintenance is different from ICE's, and folks are still learning what to do and when.

I think is just that EVs need to get better. I don't care what temperature it is outside, my truck will start just fine.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#136

Post by GiorgioG » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 4:53 PM UTC

fleeno wrote: post #61

I just did a long mile road trip in my 2023 Model Y LR, and it wasn't a lot of fun. Even in the 30Fs I would get around 200 miles of range. I tried to get to the next charger with at least 15-20% just in case. One example leg was 156mi using 84% of battery in 30F weather. The stats said I lost 13.1% due to a 9.5mph wind, and 1.3% for low tire pressure. I topped the tires up after that one. When it was well below 0 I…

Thank you for your honesty. Too many here seem to make excuses for how bad EVs are at this. I'll buy an EV when I can get one with an 800 mile range. At that point I don't care if it takes an hour to charge, I'll have to stop to eat (at the time of my choosing though) or rest for the night, etc.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#137

Post by dobs » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #77

natch wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This last quote just showcases a few people’s ignorance (at a minimum the author, the editor, and the person being quoted) of the fact that nobody needs a “charging station” at home. All you need is an outlet and a charging cable.

I have to assume you either don’t drive much, or don’t actually own an electric car. Those are the only explanations I have for making such an inaccurate (I hesitate to quote the word “ignorant“) statement. — Owner of an EV that would take days to charge on 120V

But most people also aren't draining their battery every day.

I live in Toronto, own a Kona EV, and am lucky enough to have a garage. I've literally never needed anything more than 120V except when going on >300km car trips. Any daily commute that wouldn't be handled by an overnight charge at 120V probably isn't a commute I'd put up with even with an ICE vehicle.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#138

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 5:07 PM UTC

itishappy wrote: post #67

NDizzle wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And then when you left, did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? Did you have stops along the way to add fuel in a reasonable amount of time? Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? I want EVs to be there too, but they just aren't.

> did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? My ICE almost stranded me during the recent freeze. Conditions affect fuel economy for all vehicles. > Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? This feels like an imagined problem. EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. If you end up off the road during a storm (been there) an EV will last longer for the same fill level. They also…

> EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs.

Citation needed. Are EVs using different cabin heating to ICEs? My Audi will recirculate waste engine and coolant heat to the cabin for up to 20 minutes (like if you're in a grocery store) with nothing but a fan.

> They also tend to heat up faster due to not having to adjust the entire thermal mass of the engine block.

An ICE doesn't heat the engine block? Modern ICEs also use auxiliary heating on cold starts. I can have warm air out of the cabin vents within ~30s even on a 20F day (not horribly cold, granted, but I'm talking properly warm air).

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#139

Post by bryanlarsen » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 5:07 PM UTC

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #130

bryanlarsen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about retirement communities. I'm talking about normal small towns where >50% of the kids move to the cities where the jobs are.

ooooh, you're not talking about retirement communities. One wonders how the hay gets baled if most of the population is elderly people. you don't actually understand what a rural community is.

In my experience, farmers don't live in rural communities. They live on farms. And 90% of them are over the age of 50.

Unless it's a Hutterite colony, in which case your point is entirely moot because they have 0 private transport.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#140

Post by Arnt » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 5:08 PM UTC

engineer_22 wrote: post #133

smileysteve wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you look back 70 years and realize that many small towns only existed because they had rail (passenger and goods). (and/or private bus service). Turns out, getting your goods to market before every person had a car was a requirement.

I think that puts the cart before the horse. Why build a railroad to no-where? Surely the small towns pre-existed the railroad.

The two end stations existed, and enough in between the make the railway feasible. Then the existence of paths to two big cities made some villages grow, and grow, and grow.