Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Modeless Vim

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 398 posts

Re: Modeless Vim

#131

Post by u801e »

csdvrx wrote: post #46
jjcm wrote: post #37

Conceptually the reasons the author give for this (syntax highlighting and other features of vim outclass other terminal-based editors) make total sense. That said there's something absolutely defiling about this. It's like installing a V8 in a Tesla, or replacing the pumpkin in pumpkin pie. I love that it will make VIM more accessible for more people, but I hate how they do it. Kudos to the author.

> I hate how they do it What exactly do you hate? The site says: > > Ctrl+S to save, select text using Shift+←/→/↑/↓, and copy/paste using Ctrl+C/V. I haven't setup Control-S, but I have very similar bindings: Shift and arrows for selecting, then Alt or Control-Shift for moving the selection around, as shown on https://raw.githubusercontent.com/csdvrx/CuteVim/main/record... Also, like the author I have a shortcut to…

> I like how vim is modal, but some Windows shortcuts (like Control-C) just make too much sense to given them up on Linux

Ctrl-C does work in the GUI. That said, one thing I like about Linux is being able to highlight text using the mouse and then pasting it by middle-clicking. I don't have to interact with the keyboard at all to copy and paste text that way.

Re: Modeless Vim

#132

Post by bharrison »

I can only imagine the kind of fascinating, or maybe frightening list of perceived requirements someone might need from their editor/ide that boils down to their installing this.

Re: Modeless Vim

#133

Post by jokethrowaway »

pretty cool you can do that!

nano syntax highlighting is not as good as vim but it can work - the problem is in a lot of places there is nothing but vi

if you can configure vim you probably can also just install nano so it's unlikely this will get any use

Re: Modeless Vim

#134

Post by nrabulinski »

reactordev wrote: post #88
Waterluvian wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My life has been a lie. That sounds incredible.

To be fair - coffee cake in the US is cake to have with coffee and doesn’t normally contain any coffee. In the UK and EU, coffee cake is cake with coffee. Likewise tea cakes in the US are cakes made with tea and tea cakes in UK and EU are cakes to have with tea. So… Not a lie, just a Spider-Man meets Spider-Man moment when you learn you can actually make coffee cakes with coffee (or espresso) and you can make tea cak…

I’m from the EU and I’ve never had coffee cake with no coffee nor tea cake with no tea. Very fascinating tidbit about the naming, TIL

Re: Modeless Vim

#135

Post by sfRattan »

beachy wrote: post #42

I attempted this within a few days of first being exposed to vi - 35 years ago. But since I was logging into different machines all the time I soon decided it was better to just use vi the way it came out of the box, modes and all. That philosophy has served me well over the years.

I had a similar realization early after first picking up vim in college: customization of any tool eventually hits a point of diminishing returns beyond which further alterations reduce your ability to use the tool in its default state. It's an insight I've found applies to almost any tool... From software to hardware and beyond.

Master the default behavior of a tool, and then improve your effectiveness with customization, but not so much customization that you can no longer use the tool effectively in its unmodified state. Sometimes you have to use other people's tools, and it's important to still work effectively when you do.

Re: Modeless Vim

#136

Post by AlchemistCamp »

laserbeam wrote: post #129

I don't think this covers the main reason I only use vim occasionally: it is the only reasonable editor available over ssh by default on all VMs deployed in your typical org. Over there it usually has default settings, and it's not trivial to change configs or install other editors. Worthy attempt, looks cool, but I'm still stuck with having to learn the basics of moving a cursor around reasonably :(

You can learn the basics in under 15 minutes.

Re: Modeless Vim

#138

Post by wolverine876 »

ilaksh wrote: post #77
a-dub wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vi and vim have modes becaus they were created in an era where computing and terminal capabilities were very limited. that's the whole point. it was designed for limited terminals and high latency, very slow serial links. that means when you learn it and all of its shortcuts and you have a fast and modern terminal, you are able to edit at ludicrous speed. it's like training at altitude or running with weight belts…

I just don't believe that the average vim users edits significantly faster than non vim users. I mean, maybe 5% faster. Sure. Maybe. But at what price? _At what price, I ask you??_

Another claimed impact is on cognitive load: Vim runs on muscle memory on the keyboard; it consumes as much cognitive load as typing. Mouse / GUI is distracting.

Re: Modeless Vim

#139

Post by pvg »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #115
pvg wrote: post #8

After years of vi users trying to turn every perfectly working program into a worse version of vi, it's heartening to see we're taking the fight for sanity and justice back to their territory.

Just fact that ones you learn vim motions it is hard to let go since they are so powerful

Well, reasonable people can have different, even more reasonable explanations for that 'fact'!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25099049

Re: Modeless Vim

#140

Post by beautron »

stevebmark wrote: post #113
colordrops wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really the same thing though is it? Each of vim's modes are extremely complex with their own usage of the vim grammar. The "modal" behavior you describe is very simple.

They are the same thing of course, complexity is not relevant to the definition. The main difference is Vim's editing modes are imperative. You have to glue together small painful commands to do what you want. Modern editors are declarative - you say "I want to move this file" or "I want to rename this variable" or "I'll drag this split here" and they do the rest.

> You have to glue together small painful commands to do what you want.

Painful?

Physically or mentally?

Physically I find Vim to be pain-free. I've studied and I practice good typing form, which is important—I would look there before blaming any physical pain on Vim's commands.

Mentally I find Vim's interface to be beautiful. Learning it gives your mind an amazingly coherent structure for thinking about the process of text editing.

Post reply on HN