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Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

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Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#131

Post by mysterydip »

koito17 wrote: post #112
kqr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a US thing where the company doesn't want to give any reasons for firing someone because that can be used in a lawsuit against them?

I would say so. This video is a perfect demonstration of America's "at-will employment" culture. It's extremely asymmetrical, too. Companies can fire you at any moment, for any reason (with or without cause!)... yet it is considered rude for employees to not provide ample notice when deciding to voluntarily quit.

Even worse, some companies will terminate you at some point during the (customary two) weeks before you quit, throwing off your schedule and potentially pay.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#132

Post by photonbeam »

koito17 wrote: post #112
kqr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a US thing where the company doesn't want to give any reasons for firing someone because that can be used in a lawsuit against them?

I would say so. This video is a perfect demonstration of America's "at-will employment" culture. It's extremely asymmetrical, too. Companies can fire you at any moment, for any reason (with or without cause!)... yet it is considered rude for employees to not provide ample notice when deciding to voluntarily quit.

This needs to change, no more notice

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#133

Post by ChatGTP »

IvyMike wrote: post #25

I get why Brittany's mad: Cloudflare appears to be handling this about as bad as possible. But those two HR randos aren't gonna have anything worthwhile to say, either. I don't want to be judgmental of Brittany because it's a sucky call to have to take. But my recommendation in this situation is to say "I disagree with that assessment of my performance, but I understand you are terminating my employment. What details…

What a load of nonsense.

People sacrifice a lot of personal time to ramp up in a job. This is why she is emotional. Then she was told she was doing well..by her manager. Now her investment is bogus and it sounds like she will not be compensated at all for it? I mean you're advocating she asks for compensation, when they tell her no? Then what?

Not sure who you are but you're delusional if you think this is ok.

"Go get drunk?", ok

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#134

Post by ChumpGPT »

I'm an old guy, advice for young people.

Companies do not give a fuck about you. Companies do not appreciate any sacrifice you make for them, so make none. Never do more but just what they pay you for. You owe them 40 hours and they only owe you a paycheck. You're employment is temporary. HR is there to protect the company from you. Save your money, Network and have a plan b.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#135

Post by neom »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #101
jbverschoor wrote: post #38

Doesn’t look like a layoff, but more like she was fired. Depending on the law that is either allowed or not.

Here in Canada you require a cause (under most contracts) and this would be a disaster for the company if the employee took legal action. I guess in some states you can fire people without cause?

Every state except Montana is At-Will. You can for the most part be fired for anything at any time except the usual discrimination topics.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#136

Post by kqr »

IvyMike wrote: post #25

I get why Brittany's mad: Cloudflare appears to be handling this about as bad as possible. But those two HR randos aren't gonna have anything worthwhile to say, either. I don't want to be judgmental of Brittany because it's a sucky call to have to take. But my recommendation in this situation is to say "I disagree with that assessment of my performance, but I understand you are terminating my employment. What details…

I get that this type of situation is emotionally difficult, but advice for anyone willing to take it: if the point is getting information, a confrontational "you can't do this to me" type tone is probably less helpful than a curious "you owe me nothing but if you want to brighten my day a little here's what I'm curious about" attitude.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#137

Post by system2 »

gumballindie wrote: post #23

Wow. This person is amazing! I like how she stood her ground despite these two people accusing _her_ of not performing well, when in fact the company was letting people go after hiring en masse without a plan. Just wow. Also, cloudflare, bro, get rid of those two people and whoever decided to use them as tools in gaslighting employees. Edit: If i had a daughter i’d want her to be like this person.

I do not know any company that would hire this person after this viral social media video. Employers do not like aggressive candidates who record and share on social media when they are angry.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#138

Post by 22c »

ipaddr wrote: post #108
I_am_uncreative wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you don't get severance if you're fired, in some cases.

You do unless you did something illegal or ethically wrong. Not meeting some company goal or expectation isn't enough. Killing a system with a rookie command isn't enough. Being an asshole isn't enough.

In some circumstances there absolutely is a difference in the amount of money you will be entitled to in the case of being fired vs. being made redundant. It can be on the order of several months of pay. You will also see employers simply make the working conditions incredibly miserable for their employees on the hope that they'll quit instead of the business needing to make them redundant.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#139

Post by evantbyrne »

jerlam wrote: post #68
evantbyrne wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, they are supposed to treat mass firings differently than just individual firings. WARN act would require advanced notice for firing of 50 or more persons from a location. The location of travel/remote employees would be their nearest office.

WARN act only applies to layoffs, and doesn't apply at all to firings.

Wrong. The WARN act does not differentiate between mass firings and mass layoffs of full-time workers. Requirements change once certain firing thresholds are crossed. Firing enough people to cross those thresholds, telling them individually that they are being fired for performance reasons, and not giving advanced notice would be a clear violation. https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ETA/Layoff/pdfs/Worke...

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#140

Post by PaywallBuster »

bboygravity wrote: post #13
purpleidea wrote: post #6

This kind of behaviour from HR should be illegal. Be honest and upfront, we're all humans here.

It actually would be illegal in most of the EU (at the very least in The Netherlands) AFAIK. This is some "only in the US" level stuff (in the context of "The West").

Netherlands you could have 3 month probation (I think??) or most companies may start employees on fixed-term employment contracts (6/8/12 months) before becoming permanent which is very common

(Netherlands had a rule where you could have 3 fixed term contracts, up to 24 months total, before becoming a permanent employee)

so they could've hired her on a 6 months contract and simply not renew it :)

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