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Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

theguardian.com

131–140 of 202 posts

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#131
post #7

That has included me, in the past. It is stupid easy to accidentally have a debt to a hospital. For families, sensible privacy rules at clinics can mean that it is very hard to choke point bills to a single person. To the point that I asked every time if I owed money when I did checkups to be told that we did not. Only to later find that my family did, in fact, have a bill due. For a while. Recently I'm getting it wi…

I like Kaiser in that sense. None of this separate bills monkey business. In fact, for my plan, no bills at all. Just upfront co-pays and then you're done paying.

I really like Kaiser as well, but afaik, they are one of the most expensive providers out there. I've only had Kaiser once, many years ago and the company dropped them because the cost to insure each person was significantly more expensive per person than everyone else. This was in a place where the average age was less than 35. I can only imagine what it costs now, especially for companies with a higher age average.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#132
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The VA may suck. But compared to 90% of private insurance, it’s amazing.

That has not be the experiences I've heard of from just about anyone who has had both.

Compared to a PPO plan? Definitely has been what I’ve seen.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#133
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you. What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So what exactly are you suggesting? Uproot my life and go move to a swing state so I can vote Democrat there? Because short of that, I don't know what. And the country is so culturally divided, it's not like there are…

> What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So why did single payer healthcare fail in Vermont and California? European countries the size of Maryland manage to run their own universal healthcare systems. Why can’t states where democrats outnumber republicans 2:1 do the same?

Because you'll get the same issue as with the homeless, people from other states will come over to mooch on the better services. This has to be handled at a national level in order for it to succeed.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#134
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has not be the experiences I've heard of from just about anyone who has had both.

Compared to a PPO plan? Definitely has been what I’ve seen.

Distances to the VA can be far for many. It can be extremely difficult to be seen by another facility/provider. It can be difficult to get/use your benefits in general. PPOs are basically the same type of restrictions, only the facilities tend to be held to higher state standards.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#135
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can blame politicians and corporations all they like, but the simple fact is that >50% of the country (and significantly more than that when accounting for skewed political representation) does not want the system to change, because to them any alternative is "socialism".

No it’s because socialism isn’t the only alternative and half the country wants to use it as an excuse to enact socialism, just like they want to use literally every other issue as an excuse to enact socialism. To me the medical system is the worst of both worlds. It’s heavily regulated in favor of the businesses (insurance/hospitals) and gives the illusion of competition when in reality “networks” exist to ensure th…

> I think either full on socialism or fully free market would be a huge improvement.

Demand for healthcare is about as inelastic as it gets. And inelastic goods make for inefficient markets. One doesn't need to be a full-on communist to recognize that markets are not the correct solution to every problem.

Meanwhile, the fact that healthcare is tied to employment in the US has terrible consequences for small businesses and for the efficiency of the labor market. From where I stand, socializing healthcare is the pro-business move.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#136
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So why did single payer healthcare fail in Vermont and California? European countries the size of Maryland manage to run their own universal healthcare systems. Why can’t states where democrats outnumber republicans 2:1 do the same?

Because you'll get the same issue as with the homeless, people from other states will come over to mooch on the better services. This has to be handled at a national level in order for it to succeed.

[flagged]

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#137

Don't let yourself get caught up in these details. The problem is the unreformed healthcare system; these are just more symptoms of it. It's like the old, failing server at work - people say the problem is the power supply, the outdated driver, etc. - it's not; the problem is we haven't installed a new server. We all can see the US healthcare system is awful. If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you.…

> If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you. What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So what exactly are you suggesting? Uproot my life and go move to a swing state so I can vote Democrat there? Because short of that, I don't know what. And the country is so culturally divided, it's not like there are…

[deleted]

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> generations of Americans and other democracies have managed to get things done. That's how we got here in the first place. Generations of Americans doing it the American way.

Stop blaming other people. It's us, you and me.

Yeah but now we're hopped up on adrenochrome and too busy with our Satanic rituals to do anything.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you aren't doing anything about it, the problem is you. What do you expect me to do about it? I live in a reliably blue area and it's Republicans who are blocking things like a single-payer system. So what exactly are you suggesting? Uproot my life and go move to a swing state so I can vote Democrat there? Because short of that, I don't know what. And the country is so culturally divided, it's not like there are…

You're right. You're helpless. Is that what you want to hear? Is that what you say at work? Is that what you tell your kids when they have a problem? Take step back - this response is beneath us; it's making ourselves victims. I could spell it out concretely, but the problem is the approach, the attitude, that talking like helpless victims is somehow ok. It's completely irresponsible - an abdication of our responsibi…

So no actual advice then...

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#140
post #55

This seems like a good thread to mention the book "Never Pay The First Bill" by journalist Marshall Allen. I've worked in healthcare for 20+ years. I've been on the collecting side of many bills, it's a good book for patients. Contrary to popular belief most hospital systems are not evil profit seeking corpratons but just trying to keep the lights on, it's still a business though and as a patient you have the right a…

> most hospital systems are not evil profit seeking corpratons but just trying to keep the lights on Why are they struggling so much more now than 10 or 20 years ago (when health care costs were already soaring)? I read about a non-profit childrens hospital in some large US city that paid its CEO $7 million.

If you go back and read the various dicussions, arguments and controversies from around 1984 regarding the enactment of HMOs it is my opinion that things aren't dramatically worse than at that point.

Executive compensation is an issue in a lot more industries than healthcare. I think that there are big problems there. The structure of hospitals as a medico-legal entity is a complicated business in most states. When you say "CEO of a hospital" it typically does not bear much relation to what you say when you say "CEO of Disney". In healthcare there is among other complicated things "corporate practice of medicine" laws which prohibit non-medical ownership of medical organizations. So a "Hospital CEO" may often be the head or a chairman of a foundation or entity that owns the real estate that a hospital uses or sometimes is just the practicing head of medice of a medical organization or any of a myriad of other byzantine structures. That doesn't make excess compensation any better but it's important to identify what someones role actually is and what they are compensated for. Most hospital systems are a little more like medical malls than any singular beast.

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