Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 1001 posts

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#131

Post by miohtama »

nullc wrote: post #104
fancyfredbot wrote: post #13

Satoshi's dream of a decentralised ledger finally reaches its ultimate form of a centralised list maintained by the DTC. Rejoice!

Some people own bitcoin only because they expect its value to increase due to demand from others. There is nothing inherently invalid about this-- speculation occurs in all kinds of valuable assets and it serves the public good of creating a demand buffer. For those parties, bitcoin's general properties are not very relevant and a centeralized list maintained by DTCC may well better serve their particular needs. To t…

Note that the same is for gold. Most people own gold ETFs, not physical gold, and most gold’s value is speculation (not industrial use).

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#132

Post by miohtama »

fancyfredbot wrote: post #52
ur-whale wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with the sentiment, please remember that actually buying BTC directly and doing self-custody is still an option.

So much more hassle though. Nobody's going to bother with that now - what's the point?

Everyone who does not have access to the US financial system will keep doing it. Which is 7/8B people on this planet.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#133

Post by trompetenaccoun »

nikolay wrote: post #85
mratsim wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try moving $50 in a private bank. Fees for stocks start at $200.

I do it every week. It's free (Zelle), or it's incredibly cheap. It has predictable cost and timeframe, too, unlike Bitcoin, with no customer service and no way to remediate errors and fraud! So, even if I pay to the banks, it covers people and insurance - unlike with Bitcoin, which just burns fossil fuels so that Chinese miners can get richer and richer stealing subsidized electricity!

That's like Robinhood users telling me they pay zero trading fees. Then how does RobbingHood make money?

Think about it, running an exchange has costs. I really don't understand how people can be so easily tricked by "free" offers that are actually more expensive when you do the math. PFOF (i.e. legal theft), unfavorable spread, etc... They get their money one way or another. It can technically make sense when you're trading something like $50 worth of a stock, because of course that would not be reasonable with a brokerage using a traditional fee structure. But frankly trading such low figures is silly. You have to invest a lot of time (=money) in research when stock picking, else you're guaranteed to lose sooner or later. But the reward simply isn't there. Even if you make 100% profit you now have $100. Better put that money into an index fund savings plan and forget about active trading. You're guaranteed to receive a better reward on your investment just getting a part time job selling fast food or something like that.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#134

Post by yieldcrv »

kasey_junk wrote: post #24
yieldcrv wrote: post #7

all it took was a judge declaring the SEC’s prior view toward bitcoin ETFs to be arbitrary and capricious and the SEC thinking about appealing but realizing this absolutely based SCOTUS would delete the SEC like Thanos if they ever get taken beyond circuit appeals court by the private sector markets win

The Supreme Court heard arguments in November on the constitutionality of the SEC.

regarding how the SEC circumvents the 7th amendment in how they fine people

regarding whether Congress even delegated that discretion to the SEC whether the 7th amendment circumvention stands or not

and regarding whether their in-house, on-staff, judges can be exempt from removal

there are plenty more deeper questions to bring before the supreme court, about this specific agency. this SCOTUS has expressed interest in taking out the remaining vestiges of the New Deal, which were mostly found unconstitutional in the late 1930s, with the remaining things simply being difficult to find standing for - hard to take to court. The SEC's main behaviors being one of those things. this SCOTUS has expressed interest in how the interstate commerce clause is interpreted at all, which is also a core tenant of the New Deal. Could possibly reshape our entire relationship with the Federal Government. The SEC would take the biggest L while the capital markets would be fine.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#135

Post by miohtama »

SilverBirch wrote: post #27
monero-xmr wrote: post #8

The death of crypto was written endlessly on HN. The investor activity is much more bullish over last 6 months. I think the only hot VC right now in all of tech is AI and blockchain. Now a lot of people here will be investing in Bitcoin without even knowing it, as their passive fund investments begin accumulating. The sweet victory against the no coiners.

A Bitcoin ETF is literally the antithesis of the crypto project. It’s a centralised, highly regulated trad-fi product. Also, no one is going to end up accidentally investing in crypto, these ETFs are going to be super niche products.

Not by accidentally, but many index funds will, and then people will indirectly through their pensions.

Most of funds by AUM are now passive index funds.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#136

Post by [deleted] »

miohtama wrote: post #135
SilverBirch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Bitcoin ETF is literally the antithesis of the crypto project. It’s a centralised, highly regulated trad-fi product. Also, no one is going to end up accidentally investing in crypto, these ETFs are going to be super niche products.

Not by accidentally, but many index funds will, and then people will indirectly through their pensions. Most of funds by AUM are now passive index funds.

[deleted]

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#138

Post by nikolay »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #133
nikolay wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do it every week. It's free (Zelle), or it's incredibly cheap. It has predictable cost and timeframe, too, unlike Bitcoin, with no customer service and no way to remediate errors and fraud! So, even if I pay to the banks, it covers people and insurance - unlike with Bitcoin, which just burns fossil fuels so that Chinese miners can get richer and richer stealing subsidized electricity!

That's like Robinhood users telling me they pay zero trading fees. Then how does RobbingHood make money? Think about it, running an exchange has costs. I really don't understand how people can be so easily tricked by "free" offers that are actually more expensive when you do the math. PFOF (i.e. legal theft), unfavorable spread, etc... They get their money one way or another. It can technically make sense when you're…

I pay for Coinbase One - more than I've ever paid to any bank for a year. And what's my benefit? Almost none, because I still have to pay the immense fees!

In crypto, the margins are much wider than in any traditional financial services, which rely on volume and wide adoption!

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#139

Post by npoc »

dovakin wrote: post #111
npoc wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bitcoin network is best suited for storing and moving large amounts of monetary energy. Compared to any other monetary system, it does this the most efficiently (i.e. with the least amount of energy loss), both during storage and during transfer. Note that the transfer of monetary value/energy is final settlement (i.e. it's not just an IOU that will be settled at later date, like most bank payments). Ultimately t…

The Lightning Network isn’t working as intended and the devs have basically admitted it’s never going to though. I don’t think blockchain as it is built for the btc network is as scalable as you think it can be.

I offered the Lightning Network as a single example. I don't agree with you, but it's largely irrelevant at this stage.

The fact is that Bitcoin is very likely to absorb a vast percentage of the worlds value simply as it is. Once this has happened its value will stabilise and it will become useful as a unit of account/day-to-day currency. By this point, there will be far more motivation to focus on developing solutions (such as Lightning) to allow smaller and faster transactions.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#140

Post by vasco »

miohtama wrote: post #131
nullc wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people own bitcoin only because they expect its value to increase due to demand from others. There is nothing inherently invalid about this-- speculation occurs in all kinds of valuable assets and it serves the public good of creating a demand buffer. For those parties, bitcoin's general properties are not very relevant and a centeralized list maintained by DTCC may well better serve their particular needs. To t…

Note that the same is for gold. Most people own gold ETFs, not physical gold, and most gold’s value is speculation (not industrial use).

Are there any asset classes in public markets that aren't driven primarily by speculation?
Post reply on HN