Live data from Hacker News

Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

phys.org

131–140 of 215 posts

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#131
post #122
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that Korea and Taiwan are right behind China in illegal fishing (#3 and #6, respectively). For reasons , it doesn't win you any friends when you complain about them, though.

>It's worth noting that Korea and Taiwan are right behind China in illegal fishing (#3 and #6, respectively). You should really include a citation when you claim countries are "on a list". For all I know they are #3 and #6 on "vkou's list of least favorite countries". Korea doesn't appear on the NOAA's list at all for 2023. Taiwan's impact is a tiny fraction of China's. While that's still not OK, we're comparing appl…

They are #3 and #6 on the IUU list.

https://globalinitiative.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/IUU-...

#1 China - 3.86 #2 Russia - 3.04 #3 South Korea - 2.91 #4 Somalia - 2.90 #5 Yemen - 2.89 #6 Taiwan - 2.88

Neck and neck with two states undergoing decades of civil war, and one that's a bit of an international pariah at the moment. A truly glowing endorsement.

> Taiwan's impact is a tiny fraction of China's.

Do you have any citation for this? The reports you cited do not give any numbers, and only put blame on both countries for use of forced labour, and for catching sharks (on the basis that both violate a US shark fishing ban, that was only passed by Congress in 2021[1]).

Taiwan also received a positive citation for closing some loopholes in its laws (With no evaluation for whether it enforces them.)

[1] Which is a good thing, but it is not an international shark fin ban. It's not entirely clear to me why either Taiwan or China have to follow domestic American law...

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#132
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could Japan be having its jellyfish problem, stemming from overfishing allegedly, if the rules were actually enforced?

There's a very, very big difference between "we're exhausting the fish supplies off our coastal waters" and "we have an entire dark fleet we send to South America to pillage their waters because they can't defend themselves". The question wasn't about whether Japan is appropriately managing their fish stocks, the question was whether or not they had massive illegal fleets gutting the ocean around the world (which Chi…

I guess it's technically not illegal, but they fish just outside those boundaries everywhere, they also buy up massive amounts of legally caught fish elsewhere, leading to over fishing in those areas as well. Fisherman elsewhere get paid, but it's the same end result.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#133
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We shouldn’t destroy the oceans. That's why this isn't great. Because this is not "we went vegan to save the oceans". It is "the oceans look like they are already destroyed". Besides that, I haven't seen any studies that show a vegan or vegetarian diet makes someone healthier.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/155982761142576... This is an extensive review of many papers from 10 years ago, most data agrees that vegetarian diet is considerably healthier. More modern literature merely adds that if you go full vegan you need to eat quite some if you want to preserve lean mass.

I clicked on a few at random. I saw vegetarianism "with comprehensive lifestyle changes" in one case. "Well-planned" vegan meals compared to a standard (less planned) omnivore diet in another.

Obviously, physically active vegetarians who carefully consider their diet (and eat specifically balanced non-ultraprocessed food) compares well to 100% fast food eating couch potatoes. Also obviously, it's far easier to have a nutritional deficit with vegetarian food.

I have yet to see a study where vegetarianism is just imposed with no other guidance. If you have one, I would love to see it.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#134
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could Japan be having its jellyfish problem, stemming from overfishing allegedly, if the rules were actually enforced?

There's a very, very big difference between "we're exhausting the fish supplies off our coastal waters" and "we have an entire dark fleet we send to South America to pillage their waters because they can't defend themselves". The question wasn't about whether Japan is appropriately managing their fish stocks, the question was whether or not they had massive illegal fleets gutting the ocean around the world (which Chi…

If in fact they are not enforcing their own rules in their own waters, then it wouldn't be a relevant example?

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#135
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pescatarian diets are as healthy or more healthy than vegetarian or vegan ones, and much easier to adhere to in terms of getting the required proteins and amino acids.

Can you point out any vegan/vegatarian suffering from an amino acid imbalance (while eating an isocaloric amount of food; i.e., not starving)? Even a case study would do to demonstrate your point.

For a vegan who has a sedentary lifestyle, the problem is not getting appropriate amounts of amino-acids from the food, but getting them without eating so much as to cause a rapid gain of weight.

Lean meat provides proteins with very little of anything else, so it is extremely easy to choose a menu providing enough proteins but not too much energy.

Among vegetable products, only the seeds contain decent amount of proteins (this includes the cereals and the legumes), but all seeds contain much more of either carbohydrates or fats than proteins.

There are vegetable protein extracts aimed at vegans, but I do not consider those as an acceptable solution, because they are several times more expensive than meat, so it is likely that their environmental impact, due to the consumption of energy and chemicals for the protein extraction is greater than that of meat. Chicken meat is only about twice more expensive than legumes like peas, lentils or beans, so it is not easy to find a method of protein extraction from vegetables that can compete with that.

In Europe, where I live, there exists only one method that I am aware of that can be used to obtain enough proteins in a vegan diet with no more than 2000 kcal/day, when paying no more than for a chicken meat-based diet, which is to get more than half of the proteins from wheat flour from which the starch is removed at home by washing the dough made of it.

Any vegan diet that does not use some method of protein extraction would lead to a daily intake of around 3000 kcal when providing enough proteins for a healthy male, which is acceptable only for someone who does heavy physical work, but not for someone who works by sitting in the front of a computer.

Regarding the amino-acid balance, 167 g/day of lentils can provide enough of each essential amino-acid for a 75-kg human, with the exception of methionine. Similarly 500 g/day of wheat flour can provide enough of each essential amino-acid for a 75-kg human, with the exception of lysine.

If only wheat flour would be the source of proteins 1000 g per day would be needed to provide all essential amino-acids, but that alone would provide about 3500 kcal. If only lentils would be the source of proteins, about 600 g per day would be needed to provide all essential amino-acids, but that alone would provide about 1900 kcal (and eating so much lentils per day would be more expensive than eating chicken meat).

Combining wheat flour with lentils can satisfy the amino-acid requirements with much more reasonable quantities, but the daily intake of calories remains too high, unless most of the starch (i.e. about 75% of the starch) is removed from the wheat flour.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#136
post #12

I watched a documentary years ago about jellyfish invading Japan. Basically, the jellyfish population was exploding because the fish didn't exist to eat the baby jellyfish and keep them under control. The Japanese fishermen were furious that they kept catching jellyfish, rather than the fish that they wanted. They were the cause of their own suffering. Sounds like things haven't changed... I hesitate to think that Ja…

> If they stopped over-fishing, that would just attract Chinese fishermen who would fill the gaps. Maybe that's true, but isn't this the exact same argument used by Americans: "Why should I stop driving my SUV, when China will burn that gas anyway?"

moreso, "why should the government [because private industry would anyway with the prices] invest in solar and wind instead of coal, China will burn the coal anyway"

SUVs/Trucks -> Midsize by individuals driving 95% < 30 miles is less meaningful change than many other changes. (especially considering the future of the SUV is hybrid/electric). The math changes if the question becomes, instead of size of car, reducing the car/household for walking, biking, or carpooling.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#137
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fish management doesn't really require global cooperation. It does require some sacrifice. Where I live 100 years ago herring spawn covered nearly every shoreline. I live in an archipelago so there is a lot of coastline. Now there are sporadic patches of herring spawn. The herring fishery is a multi million dollar industry. Herring is also the base of the larger fin-fish population. We can't harvest all the food for…

>That is something that can be done at a local level without global cooperation. You're assuming some foreign operator won't come to your local waters to illegally fish. China has shown they will fish literally anywhere they can get away with it. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/26/world/asia/ch...

Read that article again closer, paying attention to separate the examples of illegal behavior from simply fishing.

"Much of what China does, however, is legal — or, on the open seas at least, largely unregulated." -- quote from your link.

Fishing "right up to the exclusive economic zone", means you're in international waters and can fish freely. They continue their activities because there are no legal means to stop their behavior. It's completely legal to fish in international waters.. just as it's legal for the US military to conduct freedom of movement operations in international waters. Countries can complain, but it doesn't give them the right to stop the behavior.

That's the problem.

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#139
post #71

Where I live (Finland) salmon is most likely the most commonly used sushi/sashini fish. It tastes absolutely great, IMHO better than tuna. Hopefully other countries can also start using more commonly available fishes for sushi/sashimi and don't just stick to tuna because of historical reasons.

I'm afraid salmon fisheries aren't doing great either, and are facing similar levels of decline and risk.

> Atlantic salmon (pictured) is placed in the “near threatened” category. New evidence says that globally, the population has declined by 23% between 2006 and 2020.

https://www.fishfarmermagazine.com/2023/12/13/wild-atlantic-...

https://wrt.org.uk/atlantic-salmon-now-near-threatened-on-iu...

(And actually when I try to look it up, it does not look like Yellowfin Tuna is actually on the "near threatened" or worse list officially? So atlantic salmon may be more threatened than yellowfin tuna according to IUCN?)

Re: Tuna species popular in sashimi and poke bowls in sharp decline

#140
post #122
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that Korea and Taiwan are right behind China in illegal fishing (#3 and #6, respectively). For reasons , it doesn't win you any friends when you complain about them, though.

>It's worth noting that Korea and Taiwan are right behind China in illegal fishing (#3 and #6, respectively). You should really include a citation when you claim countries are "on a list". For all I know they are #3 and #6 on "vkou's list of least favorite countries". Korea doesn't appear on the NOAA's list at all for 2023. Taiwan's impact is a tiny fraction of China's. While that's still not OK, we're comparing appl…

The IUU report[0] gives such a ranking in Table 4. Ten worst-performing countries.

for IUU fishing scores by type, for all types of state responsibilty:

China, Russia, South Korea, Somalia, Yemen, Taiwan, Ukraine, Eritrea, Egypt, Libya.

[0] https://globalinitiative.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/IUU-...

Post reply on HN