Things are about to get worse for generative AI • Hacker News Board

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#131

Post by wongarsu » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:51 PM UTC

Smaug123 wrote: post #48

anonzzzies wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s one way of getting China to close the gap as they don’t care.

Eh? With a gun to my head I'd say the CCP cares more about censorship than the NYT does about plagiarism, but it's not an easy call. The problems are the same ("training set contains lots of stuff I don't want the LLM to say").

One interesting nuance that might come to play is that while the US nearly always makes products for their own market and expects the rest of the world to adopt it, China is willing to clearly differentiate products for their own market and for export.

As a consequence, an AI meant to topple Western soft power around the world might be held to much looser standards than one used domestically. Who cares that in rare circumstances the AI mentions the Tiananmen Square Massacre to Spaniards if asked about it, as long as it is good enough at spreading Chinese culture.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#132

Post by moron4hire » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:51 PM UTC

Baldbvrhunter wrote: post #120

moron4hire wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your example, there are missing details. Who owns the output? The way you've described it, that would typically mean that the guitarist is creating a "work for hire" so the ownership transfers to you, but that's a contract detail that would need to be resolved. For whoever owns the output also owns the liability of the output. You yourself might separately be able to pursue a claim against the guitarist for breech…

Midjourney's TOS > You may not use the Service to try to violate the intellectual property rights of others, including copyright, patent, or trademark rights. Doing so may subject you to penalties including legal action or a permanent ban from the Service. Perplexity's > Intellectual Property Rights > Perplexity AI acknowledges and respects the intellectual property rights of all individuals and entities, and expects…

Yeah, that's nice and all, but it's not what we're talking about. These passages are about deliberately using the tool to violate copyright. What if, in good faith, I don't deliberately attempt to infringe, but the tool still produces results that do? Because that is happening.

And that's just their interpretation of the tool. There is another interpretation that their tool itself is a violation.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#133

Post by ImHereToVote » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:52 PM UTC

lewhoo wrote: post #104

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If making money is the only reason to create maybe it’s good if they stop.

Oh yeah, I forgot artists are spiritual creatures who don't have to eat. It certainly isn't the only reason to create but a necessary condition to actually be a professional artist, no ?

Why don't you just ask for an increase in the allowance from your family trust fund? People have become so lazy nowadays, they can't even be bothered to have a hard talk about their financial estate with their rich grand-papá anymore.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#134

Post by sjfjsjdjwvwvc » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:52 PM UTC

lewhoo wrote: post #104

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If making money is the only reason to create maybe it’s good if they stop.

Oh yeah, I forgot artists are spiritual creatures who don't have to eat. It certainly isn't the only reason to create but a necessary condition to actually be a professional artist, no ?

Reread my comment again. If your __only__ motivation is money, you will have a problem.

I agree it’s necessary to pay artists - but we don’t need copyright for that! There are many tried and proven alternatives.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#135

Post by pylua » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:53 PM UTC

danielbln wrote: post #102

preommr wrote: post #40

We need clearer laws that only apply to Generative AI. Too many comparisons and parallels are being drawn to actual people. "Like what if someone learned how to draw by watching trademarked material, and then accidentally produced it" But these models aren't people and they exist in a category of their own. I do think it's somewhat trademark infringement by these models, also that it should be allowed and that ultima…

That's where I'm at. Dall+E spitting out C3PO should be entirely ok, unless I'm making money with the output, Disney should pound sand.

Put that c3p0 on a website that gets revenues from views and someone is getting paid.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#136

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:54 PM UTC

vimax wrote: post #14

Maybe Disney and the record labels shouldn't be claiming so much of public culture as their own.

If they created it, they own it, why shouldn't they be claiming that?

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#137

Post by vinni2 » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:54 PM UTC

Intox wrote: post #12

Or... things are about to get worse for copyright holders. I don't see any developped country pressing the brake on AGI in the near future to protect a few copyright holders from getting "stolen" in hypothetic scenarios.

> I don't see any developped country pressing the brake on AGI in the near future

It’s already happening with EU AI Act https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/202...

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#138

Post by 4bpp » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:55 PM UTC

AlienRobot wrote: post #117

sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If making money is the only reason to create maybe it’s good if they stop.

Your unwillingness to pay doesn't give you the right to steal, that only gives you the right to not take the deal and walk away.

What exactly am I stealing if I don't take the deal, walk away and then enjoy an AI-generated artwork that just so happens to resemble the thing closely instead? I'd think that stealing requires taking something away from someone, regardless of how hard certain industries try to gaslight me into expanding the definition to protect their business model.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#139

Post by intrasight » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:56 PM UTC

Just make LLMs be like your average human and forget details. I know that it's easier to say than to do, but so are many things worth doing. I can't plagiarize - my language and visual memory doesn't work that way. Such an LLM will have to "create" and answer from more fuzzy memory.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#140

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:56 PM UTC

nojs wrote: post #68

In practice, what happens next when websites all start to block openai by default (or change their TOS to disallow OpenAI’s crawlers)? It seems like there’s little incentive not to do this, because unlike Google OpenAI isn’t bringing any traffic or eyeballs. It may end up being a default setting in Wordpress for example. But OpenAI presumably can’t afford to pay every single long tail source of content on the whole i…

This is what will kill generative AI and there is nothing the courts or lawmakers can do about it. Even in a fair use scenario you can't beat the TOS.