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Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

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Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#131

Post by robertlagrant »

ath3nd wrote: post #37

People like you are the reason I personally don't want to be in an office. > asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. Basically like having a toddler around. Sorry for the negative take here but how it's written it feels like you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus. Or I migh…

> it feels like you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus.

This is very one-sided. If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours searching through the local intranet for some information, then that makes your team faster. There's a balance to be had, of course, but your team's overall delivery is what's important.

> I view it as a type of interruption.

It's not your view. Of course it's an interruption. That doesn't make it bad.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#132

Post by skor »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #28
rzz3 wrote: post #7

But, why offices at all? All my productivity problems are solved by just working from home.

This. I'm about to build a dev team next year, and my co-founder is kinda disappointed that I want them all completely remote. He's the old-school "let's have a big office where we can all get together" and I'm "let's not and say we did". I can see way down the line there'll be a problem with Engineering vs The Rest because we'll be remote and they'll be in an office. But tbh there is always a problem with Engineerin…

may your project prosper.

You sound like my current employer. Working for them the only worrying thing I ever think about is that I don’t want this gig to end, ever.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#133

Post by jwrallie »

I read maybe two or three of these articles here on HN, and I am totally convinced that this is true, but my boss is not reading HN and has a different opinion. A shared office is also cheaper for him, so I need more than forwarding a link to an article to convince him.

I would love to hear more about how people actually changed their situation, other than the obvious way of looking for another job.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#134

Post by Towaway69 »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #129
nox100 wrote: post #18

Some do, not all do. I do much better in a room with ~6 people that are working on the same project. Much better than working at home. Much better than a private office (which I've had). Having people around me working on the same project is invaluable for me for * asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. * running ideas by others. This doesn't happen on c…

When I was junior I shared an office with a senior. I was constantly asking him questions. He pretty much knew everything, I'm not kidding, this guy was amazing. So this arrangement worked out really well for me, but not sure how much he liked having his work interrupted so much. Could be that between the two of us, the benefits averaged out to zero.

This is where headphones can help. Headphones on, don't bother the person or only chat.

That was an unwritten rule the last time I worked in an open space.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#135

Post by robertlagrant »

cevn wrote: post #124
ath3nd wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let me guess: that 1 person will of course not be you, right? Because if it is you, I bet you will complain even more. I don't mind it being me, as a matter of fact, it's often me, as I am in a more senior position and have a lot of historic context. However, a lot of time has been spent on documenting most things, so often I am just going over the docs with the new onboarder, which is okay, as long as it's done in…

Everybody thinks their question is simple and quick, then it takes 30 minutes of time at minimum. I dunno why you are getting so much push back, must be a bunch of managers. Developers need to be left alone.

The push back is because it's extreme and one-sided. If you have some information that unblocks a team member, or another part of the business, say to make a sale, yes you should be interrupted. Your salary comes from somewhere, and your delivery is as a team, not an individual.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#136

Post by sokoloff »

ath3nd wrote: post #115
esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

Who would win: - literally 100s of publications showing how disruptive and destructive to focus it is to be working in an open office work and how much distractions it brings: https://theconversation.com/returning-to-the-workplace-heres... https://hbr.org/2019/11/the-truth-about-open-offices https://www.businessdit.com/distraction-work-statistics/ https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/minds-business/eve... https:…

Who wins? The CFO and corp real estate people (correctly) saying how much more expensive (and less flexible to changing team size) a building with enough private offices is.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#137

Post by Loughla »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #42
nox100 wrote: post #18

Some do, not all do. I do much better in a room with ~6 people that are working on the same project. Much better than working at home. Much better than a private office (which I've had). Having people around me working on the same project is invaluable for me for * asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. * running ideas by others. This doesn't happen on c…

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I'm not at work to make friends, but also being connected to the people around you who you are spending 8+ hours a day with is important, I believe. What happens when you need something? Relationships ease communication, and reduce the chances of miscommunication.

Do you just want to sit in silence all day making money for the company? Do you never need to blow off steam? Do you never need help?

> i dont want to hear your quick questions

I'm not trying to be hateful with this next sentence, but I struggle to even understand who would act like this, and for what reason that isn't a diagnosis.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#138

Post by gregoriol »

throw0101c wrote: post #119
esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

> Open plan might work great for some types of work […] I'm curious to know: why types are, or people consider to be, good for open plan? Generally, office type jobs tends to be one where people need to use their brains to concentrate on something, and open plans tend to be able to create / not block distractions, they would be antithetical to being able to concentrate.

Mostly everything that is not creative: creativity needs focus. Take any job that isn't creating something, anything related to customer, operations, support, ... and one can do it in almost any conditions.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#139

Post by OfficeChad »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #42
nox100 wrote: post #18

Some do, not all do. I do much better in a room with ~6 people that are working on the same project. Much better than working at home. Much better than a private office (which I've had). Having people around me working on the same project is invaluable for me for * asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. * running ideas by others. This doesn't happen on c…

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