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3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

minnesotareformer.com

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Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#131

Post by norir »

nier wrote: post #52
aaomidi wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think death sentence is actually a bit much here. Im generally against death sentences for heat of the moment situations. Think: murder. But in a situation where you’ve had legal teams working with you, where you’ve been planning this out, and where you know what the damage to this is etc., you’re basically a massive threat to society. The active planning, intent, and maliciousness is something that should be…

For me, the death penalty contains traces of mercy and life-long incarceration does not. You take away someone’s freedom for the rest of their life instead of putting them out of their misery.

Then why not make the death penalty an option for the condemned? They could choose between life in prison or an execution in a form of their choosing if they wish to be put out of their misery.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#132

Post by hotdogscout »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
acdha wrote: post #5

I increasingly think we need personal criminal liability for everyone in the management chain before this will end. As long as you can cash out your options before the reckoning, maybe even spin a division out to go bankrupt, there are just too many people who’ll chase the larger number. You need the guy who gets that internal memo to think that if he doesn’t report it to the EPA, he’ll spend the rest of his life won…

In China, there was a case of baby formula execs (Edit: pointed out to me further down thread that the execs were only jailed for 5-15 years with Sanlu's general manager receiving a life sentence, and the people executed very those directly responsible for tainting the product mentioned) knowingly selling product that was harmful and led to tens of thousands of hospitalizations and a handful of deaths. They were exec…

That's a crude simplification of due diligence in China based on one example. Here's a more recent example where children died and parents were threatened by government workers into silence (otherwise they wouldn't be able to see and bury their bodies).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Qiqihar_school_gymnasiu...

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#134

Post by leobg »

hcurtiss wrote: post #108

Purdy was improperly conflating their ability to detect the substance with "harm," and the environmental propagandists have been running with it for a long time. What "harm" precisely did he identify? The article doesn't say. Maybe a carcinogen? Maybe not? There's been a concerted effort to make PFOS/PFAS an environmental super-villain, but it's hard to substantiate when we volitionally ingest many flourinated pharma…

Did you read this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-b...

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#136

Post by ekianjo »

mrweasel wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China, there was a case of baby formula execs (Edit: pointed out to me further down thread that the execs were only jailed for 5-15 years with Sanlu's general manager receiving a life sentence, and the people executed very those directly responsible for tainting the product mentioned) knowingly selling product that was harmful and led to tens of thousands of hospitalizations and a handful of deaths. They were exec…

Death sentence is probably a bit much, but if management takes actions that they know will kill or maim I don't see a reason why punishment shouldn't be the same as if you went out and hit someone with a hammer. In this case, force 3M to pay for everything, if they refuse or can't the government sells of the company to pay for the cost. I'm not a fan of the death sentence, but I have no problem killing of evil compan…

> Death sentence is probably a bit much

Why? If you knowingly decide to poison thousands of people, that makes you a mass murderer. Since when are we so lenient about those?

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#137

Post by at_a_remove »

mrweasel wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China, there was a case of baby formula execs (Edit: pointed out to me further down thread that the execs were only jailed for 5-15 years with Sanlu's general manager receiving a life sentence, and the people executed very those directly responsible for tainting the product mentioned) knowingly selling product that was harmful and led to tens of thousands of hospitalizations and a handful of deaths. They were exec…

Death sentence is probably a bit much, but if management takes actions that they know will kill or maim I don't see a reason why punishment shouldn't be the same as if you went out and hit someone with a hammer. In this case, force 3M to pay for everything, if they refuse or can't the government sells of the company to pay for the cost. I'm not a fan of the death sentence, but I have no problem killing of evil compan…

I dunno, if there's no money left, the execs can live in a cell where they are fed the various tainted products, but not told which.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#138

Post by TeMPOraL »

macintux wrote: post #114
lupusreal wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing innocent people is wrong, killing murderers is good. Therefore we should give accused murderers fair trials before executing them.

> Therefore we should give accused murderers fair trials before executing them. There are many examples of accused murderers who received fair trials, were convicted, and yet were still innocent.

As 'xvector points out, the alternative punishment - like long sentences in high-security facilities - can, in practice, be much, much worse. This is a theory vs. practice thing - theory could say that "there's always a chance", but actual numbers will say that the country is just making convicts - guilty and innocent alike - spend decades being tortured.

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#139

Post by arrosenberg »

kortilla wrote: post #105
ddol wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nationalising the corporation would delist it from an exchange, preventing stock sales.

Meaning short sellers never have to buy it back.

That seems like the correct incentive, no? If the shorts believe a company is (e.g.) poisoning 100,000 people in a large suburb, shouldn't they profit massively if the government agrees and seizes it?

Re: 3M knew its chemicals were harmful decades ago, but didn't tell the public

#140

Post by cbmuser »

hcurtiss wrote: post #116
ThomPete wrote: post #94

This is a completely disingenuous take on the case. There isn't a single explanation of how its dangerous only thats its found in many different species and claims its toxic. If this shallow type of analysis is enough for otherwise technical people on this forum then we have a much bigger problem than 3M.

People really want to believe these companies are Disney super villains. No evidence required. And no accounting for all the benefits that derive from these chemicals. Americans are really bad at risk assessment and toxicology. I suspect it will be our ultimate undoing when the Chinese come along with superior weapons that withstand higher heat thresholds or less corrosion.

Europeans, especially Germans suffer from the same problem.

Chemical companies like Hoechst gave up on Germany due to its anti-scientific, emotional stance on chemistry.

Yet the same people in Germany complains nowadays that the country is having issues supplying itself with pharmaceuticals.

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