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Chimera Linux

chimera-linux.org

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Re: Chimera Linux

#131

Post by berkes »

prmoustache wrote: post #111
jchw wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks quite nice though yeah, the choice of GNOME makes me a little bit less enthused. I wonder if System76's COSMIC will ever take off enough to be a consideration, as I would really like to see a new stable, pragmatic, productivity + user-focused DE take off. Plasma's a bit too buggy, GNOME feels not so pragmatic and definitely not so user-focused, the rest feel like they lack some level of polish and maintenanc…

Gnome is one of my favorite DE as to me it is so easily usable and efficient with maximise use of the keyboard straight out of the box while still being very practical to use with a tactile screen. I do understand that it may not be for everyone but my understanding is that when people say a desktop is not user focused, what they really mean is it isn't focused to people resistant to changes

> not user focused, what they really mean is it isn't focused to people resistant to changes

That, or "it's not aligned perfectly with all my personal needs"

Re: Chimera Linux

#132

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

sidkshatriya wrote: post #65
NewJazz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[musl is] slower than glibc, and in occasionally difficult to predict spots Note that sometimes (/often) this purely due to the allocator, and as far as I remember Chimera uses a different allocator than the stock musl one.

Happy chimera user here. It feels fast in regular usage though I use ssh much more than desktop. What’s actually amazing about chimera is the musl + clang/llvm/compiler-rt combination. It allows you to do all kinds of amazing things easily from a programming perspective. The apk 3 package manager, build system (cbuild) is also excellent. Everything feels modern and clean. Package availability is still limited and you…

On Void, installing clang results in a massive 120MB libLLVM-15.so along with a number of other hefty shared libaries. 50+ MB, 30+ MB and so on.

As such, I have stuck with GCC which requires much less space.

Is this any different on Chimera.

Re: Chimera Linux

#133

Post by sirsinsalot »

nilsherzig wrote: post #112
jchw wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks quite nice though yeah, the choice of GNOME makes me a little bit less enthused. I wonder if System76's COSMIC will ever take off enough to be a consideration, as I would really like to see a new stable, pragmatic, productivity + user-focused DE take off. Plasma's a bit too buggy, GNOME feels not so pragmatic and definitely not so user-focused, the rest feel like they lack some level of polish and maintenanc…

What Gnome do you think doesn't feel user focused? I use 90% of the time minimalist window manager, but when I need a full desktop I find Gnome the best choice. Gnome isn't particularly exciting, but in my experience, everything I can't say about other desktops just works. Apart from that, Adwaita looks incredibly much better Qt.

I can't get past most apps having a title bar / chrome that feels like 1/3 of the window.

Re: Chimera Linux

#134

Post by q66 »

lucideer wrote: post #104
krupan wrote: post #89

If you are along time GNU user (meaning GNU grep, sed, less, awk, find, tar, etc., etc.) this will be way more frustrating than you realize to use. Having lived in the UNIX days, I can still remember the subtle differences in all the command-line tools driving me nuts. This is actually how the GNU tools became popular even before Linux was a thing, you could install them on irix, hpux, sun, any UNIX, and you wouldn't…

If the APIs of CLI utils is the primary concern, it's worth noting that they say their core userland is provided by "FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD" - so any friction here should in theory just be equivalent to the friction of using a BSD today (or Mac).

it's solely FreeBSD as an upstream for us, though Net/Open are an upstream for FreeBSD itself for some tools

the tools have made big strides over the last few decades, so it's nowhere near like it used to be back then

Re: Chimera Linux

#135

Post by lucideer »

q66 wrote: post #134
lucideer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the APIs of CLI utils is the primary concern, it's worth noting that they say their core userland is provided by "FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD" - so any friction here should in theory just be equivalent to the friction of using a BSD today (or Mac).

it's solely FreeBSD as an upstream for us, though Net/Open are an upstream for FreeBSD itself for some tools the tools have made big strides over the last few decades, so it's nowhere near like it used to be back then

Good to know. My quote above was taken from the website copy verbatim.

Really cool looking project - looking forward to trying it out.

Re: Chimera Linux

#136

Post by viraptor »

krupan wrote: post #89

If you are along time GNU user (meaning GNU grep, sed, less, awk, find, tar, etc., etc.) this will be way more frustrating than you realize to use. Having lived in the UNIX days, I can still remember the subtle differences in all the command-line tools driving me nuts. This is actually how the GNU tools became popular even before Linux was a thing, you could install them on irix, hpux, sun, any UNIX, and you wouldn't…

I still find it weird / annoying that those commands don't get installed with prefixes by default. At least for awk it's common to have gawk, mawk, etc. installed explicitly. I wish it was common to similarly have bsdtar, gtar, etc.

At least in nixpkgs it's easy to reference the right version explicitly for each context, but everything else is a just guessing.

Re: Chimera Linux

#137

Post by rahen »

Hendrikto wrote: post #129

Even though I do not fully agree, I think this project has one of the most mature, nuanced, and balanced takes on systemd I have seen yet [0]. [0]: https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-projects-take...

This is also the stand of Void Linux by the way. Void is not systemd-free for the sake of it but to offer a Linux system that keeps its Unix heritage of small, loosely coupled components, is reasonably POSIX and portable (xbps), and lets the user pick his libc.

Re: Chimera Linux

#138

Post by treffer »

Hendrikto wrote: post #129

Even though I do not fully agree, I think this project has one of the most mature, nuanced, and balanced takes on systemd I have seen yet [0]. [0]: https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-projects-take...

This is a really neat one. I think the only part that should be more nuanced is

> systemd is written to deliberately (ab)use every single non-portable extension under the sun

I think this should be split into 2 parts. Linux specific kernel features and userspace extensions (GNU vs. POSIX).

Using linux specific kernel features (like cgroups) is good for a linux system. E.g. a common issue with sshd used to be that under high load it would become slow and problematic to log in. Systemd configures the system such that this becomes less likely to happen.

For userspace extensions I would have hoped that systemd would see it as a net positive to build upon a smaller set of tools and features, but the page seems to indicate otherwise. Does anyone know what happened on that front?

Re: Chimera Linux

#139

Post by rahen »

5- wrote: post #10

i really like a lot of design choices in chimera linux (particularly around its packaging/build system), but as a current alpine linux (main pc, not docker) user, i find i still can't justify musl. i like small simple correct software, but musl, despite being all of those things, is, in my experience - slower than glibc, and in occasionally difficult to predict spots; - causes just a bit too much trouble porting soft…

Besides Chimera, you may be interested in trying Void Linux also.

Re: Chimera Linux

#140

Post by q66 »

treffer wrote: post #138
Hendrikto wrote: post #129

Even though I do not fully agree, I think this project has one of the most mature, nuanced, and balanced takes on systemd I have seen yet [0]. [0]: https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-projects-take...

This is a really neat one. I think the only part that should be more nuanced is > systemd is written to deliberately (ab)use every single non-portable extension under the sun I think this should be split into 2 parts. Linux specific kernel features and userspace extensions (GNU vs. POSIX). Using linux specific kernel features (like cgroups) is good for a linux system. E.g. a common issue with sshd used to be that und…

that part refers solely to gratuitous use of extensions in the code, it does not refer to things like cgroups for which there are no portable equivalents, or anything else that is required to implement useful functionality and has no portable counterparts
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