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Europe needs to escape providerism

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Re: Europe needs to escape providerism

#131

Post by tomjakubowski »

bequanna wrote: post #5
woodruffw wrote: post #2

For some definitions of wealth, surely. By most quality of life metrics, the average (Western) European is doing as well or better than the average American.

Can you cite some specifics? I’ve travelled to quite a few places in Europe and coming from the American Midwest, we are beating much of Europe in most/all QoL metrics by a mile. Much larger and nicer homes, larger properties, mincer automobiles, more variety of all consumer goods, higher incomes, more wealth and social mobility to name a few and I live in “flyover” country.

Suicide rates are a good place to start. Overall the EU's suicide rate is 10.25/100k vs 14.04/100k in the US, and it looks like many places in the Midwest are doing worse than the US average.

[1] US suicide rates https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/...

[2] EU suicide rates https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/e...

Re: Europe needs to escape providerism

#132

Post by aziaziazi »

Detrytus wrote: post #55
Alcatros552 wrote: post #37

The old european countries understand that education invested in the young results in taxes for the long run. Every soul without healthcare could just die along the way and all the investments are gone including the workpower I find it wrong to call it lack of creating wealth of providerism its neither of those things. Its a fine balance to understand what is best for the entire population

> The old european countries understand that education invested in the young results in taxes for the long run. But those taxes will go to IRS, because the best and brightest Europeans will emigrate to US, where there are best opportunities for them.

Only the opportunist will emigrate to grab those opportunities. Most of the best and brightest europeans are smart enough to find a great job within their own country or close, with a great healthcare, eduction, fresh food, rail system while living close to their family.

Re: Europe needs to escape providerism

#133

Post by aziaziazi »

missedthecue wrote: post #49
askonomm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well firstly there's about 2x more Europeans than Americans by population, and secondly 44% of Americans don't even own a passport.

Only 41% of Germans have a passport. I don't see your point. We can adjust for population and the data is still clear. EU citizens would rather be in the US than the other way around. And the EU is only about 30% larger not 100%.

> EU citizens would rather be in the US than the other way around

Any source? I doubt many EU citizen would agree with that, especially those aware of US work and health system.

Re: Europe needs to escape providerism

#134

Post by throw__away7391 »

atoav wrote: post #40
throw__away7391 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars. Americans spend a ton of money on having cars and building car-centric infrastructure. Most European countries could not afford to do this.

I am not sure you are very aware of european infrastructure projects. The current tunneling projects alone won't find ongoing equivalents in the US as far as I know. But maybe we should talk about rail, because that is apparently going splendidly in the US.

I am aware, but in the US entire states have practically been paved over with suburban sprawl. It is not simply a matter of roads, it's the whole package required when everyone has to drive to go anywhere. You need more parking, more lanes, more space between all buildings which further increases the distance that everyone and everything needs to travel, all infrastructure is more expensive from electric to sewage. In my apartment in Europe I can grab something from the store and be back on my sofa in a few minutes (unless it's Sunday) or stop in on my way home effortlessly, in the US this takes at least 20 minutes to go out, or at a minimum a special stop, finding parking, etc. The extra time it takes to go shopping plus having the car to cary a lot of stuff means people buy more at once, in large stores with parking lots the size of European villages. Many people have a second refrigerator in their garage to store extra food--homes which are larger, more aggressively heated/cooled than their European counterparts and filled with an endless barrage of stuff, Americans are always buying things for their homes until they're full. Even with the larger homes, extra storage space is a big industry in the US. The cars are larger on average in the US, driven more, meaning more fuel burned, more accidents, more wear and tear on vehicles and the roads themselves.

I usually spend only a few weeks a year in the US but every time I visit I'm struck by home much energy and resources are expended on rather mundane everyday activities. I don't think most countries could afford to live this way.

Re: Europe needs to escape providerism

#135

Post by figassis »

rossdavidh wrote: post #94

Good points about poorly structured regulation vs. good, unfortunately obscured by a silly take on who is productive. Where does all the most advanced lithography in the world come from? A Dutch company. The U.S. has nothing to compare, and the Chinese even less so, and without this Dutch company's equipment you cannot make the advanced chips in that iPad, or any modern computer. The points about poorly structured re…

I think people keep missing the point. Few or fewer does not mean none.
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