Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

tuta.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 151 posts

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#131

Post by themoonisachees »

petemir wrote: post #127
inferiorhuman wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they have access to those internal IP scores? When I was doing DMARC stuff professionally, plenty of big names were willing to send DMARC reports our way. Microsoft was the only company to give us full text.

Well, you can (and should!) set up your DMARC preferences through your DNS records and enable a mailbox to receive those reports, which you can then use to verify if you have any/some problems with particular providers. This is totally free and standard. But the score I am speaking of was something different: it was the reputation assigned by Microsoft (i.e., something internal) to the IPs from which we sent e-mails.…

in outlook's admin console, there are a few tools related to antispam, including a way to view stats about why or why not a specific email got sent to spam. IIRC it exposes the sender's reputation score among other things.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#132

Post by charcircuit »

pembrook wrote: post #34
charcircuit wrote: post #6

[flagged]

The vast majority of spam these days now originates from Outlook and Gmail accounts. Yet, nobody has the power or would dare to block them. This is not so black and white as you say.

The ratio of spam to legitimate emails and the amount of effort the company puts into stopping spam matters.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#133

Post by mulmen »

nunez wrote: post #124
mulmen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the unsubscribe link works I still report spam as spam. If it is unsolicited then it is spam, plain and simple.

It's not spam if you agree to receive marketing emails from the sender

It is spam if I didn’t specifically ask for it. Offering an opt-out as part of some other flow doesn’t mean I want your marketing crap.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#134

Post by kevincox »

Ekaros wrote: post #13
treyfitty wrote: post #7

Maybe Tutanota.com has a lot of outlook users reporting your marketing emails as spam. I generally do this if the unsubscribe route is too painful, or even if it takes too long to load.

It is good practise. You should never use the unsubscribe function as it tells sender the account receives is actually in use and valid. Thus they will sell your email to even more spammers.

You absolutely should use the unsubscribe link if it is solicited mail. It is very rude to ask for mail then harm the senders reputation because you don't want to unsubscribe.

But if the mail is unsolicited or the unsubscribe link doesn't work then absolutely yes, mash that spam button.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#135

Post by kevincox »

ZWoz wrote: post #70
PedroBatista wrote: post #64

To be fair, Hotmail / Outlook is known to be the worst of the worst when it comes to accepting emails. Even a spotlessly configured MTA will not guarantee you anything.

Putting on my "postmaster at shared hosting company" hat: Used to be. Gmail is done lot of work to be worse than Outlook. At least MS idiosyncraties are somewhat known and stable. I would say that most customer complaints are related to gmail.

I have a small sample size but for my SaaS which primarily sends email GMail marked as spam for a while but then gained domain trust and it hasn't been a notable issue. Outlook has my IP on a blacklist and doesn't even consider anything else. I need to send via relays to get an IP that is trusted enough for Outlook to even consider my message (which is signed with DKIM + SPF with a DMARC reject policy)

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#136

Post by Ir0nMan »

petemir wrote: post #127
inferiorhuman wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they have access to those internal IP scores? When I was doing DMARC stuff professionally, plenty of big names were willing to send DMARC reports our way. Microsoft was the only company to give us full text.

Well, you can (and should!) set up your DMARC preferences through your DNS records and enable a mailbox to receive those reports, which you can then use to verify if you have any/some problems with particular providers. This is totally free and standard. But the score I am speaking of was something different: it was the reputation assigned by Microsoft (i.e., something internal) to the IPs from which we sent e-mails.…

>enable a mailbox to receive those reports

Thanks for mentioning this. Have set DMARC preferences in DNS for ages but never configured a mailbox to receive the reports. Will try it out.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#138

Post by rstuart4133 »

safety1st wrote: post #35
Ekaros wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that 100% of companies have not sold unsubscribed users information? As if there is even single counter-example you should just automatically mark it spam and then email providers should blacklist the domain.

You're absolutely incorrect about this. What you're saying may have been true a long time ago but it's 100% wrong now. In 2023/2024 you should click unsubscribe links. No matter how spammy a sender is, an unsubscribe click is a big signal that they don't want to contact that email account again. It takes time and money to warm up a domain, prepare it for outbound email, and keep it from being blacklisted when you're…

> You're absolutely incorrect about this.

No, not absolutely.

I presume you are operating under the assumption that most bulk email comes from the big providers like AWS and MailChimp (who in fact uses on SendGrid underneath). And yes, under those circumstances you are correct. Those big firms whose day job is sending "spam" have a huge incentive to ensure you don't outright reject the spam - if they don't the reputation of the IP Address ranges they are sending from get trashed. For example, they go to the trouble of wrapping every link in the email with a redirect via them, so they can monitor what emails from them you are engaging with.

But I have some news for you - the vast bulk of spam does not come from them. Maybe you aren't aware of that because you use an email provider like GMail or Outlook. They stop most of this other spam (which is how we get to the headline). But nonetheless it's there, and if it does sneak through and you click on the unsubscribe link you no only won't be unsubscribed, you confirming your a real human will ensure you will be subscribed to many spam emails.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#139

Post by rstuart4133 »

account42 wrote: post #115
ZWoz wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting on my "postmaster at shared hosting company" hat: Used to be. Gmail is done lot of work to be worse than Outlook. At least MS idiosyncraties are somewhat known and stable. I would say that most customer complaints are related to gmail.

FWIW that has not been my experience with hosting my own personal mail. The only deliverability issue I had with Gmail was with a newly registered domain and even then they did at least deliver the mails to the spam folder (and soon enough directly to the inbox) which is much more than Microsoft does.

I host my own email too. +1.
Post reply on HN