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No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

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Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#131

Post by 0xDEF »

Eumenes wrote: post #128
Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Wyden for President.

This guy is wrong about every single thing, except government surveillance/spying. Example, he supported the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (S.720) which criminalizes boycott and divestment activism by U.S. citizens against the State of Israel

US law forbids US government contractors from complying with foreign state sanctions and boycotts against Israel.

For example Lockheed Martin is not allowed to comply with Qatari and Turkish demands to boycott and sanction Israel.

Private US citizens and companies who are not government contractors can boycott Israel as much as they want.

You are probably confusing the law with some weird Texas law that also forbids government workers from boycotting Israel.

The EU has similar laws forbidding EU companies with complying with US/Israeli sanctions against Iran.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#132

Post by GuB-42 »

beAbU wrote: post #121
GuB-42 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't make this blanket illegal. For example, if you buy something online, the seller will need to share your address with the delivery company, unless they do the delivery themselves, with is impractical most of the times. So you can make laws regarding the transfer of personal information, but these are bound to be really complicated, just look at GDPR.

But that's not the same? The online retailer is /giving/ my address to the courier. Without it the retailer nor the courier will be able to give me the service/product I'm paying for. I think it's perfectly fine to make ‐reselling‐ of personal data blanket illegal. Since it's my data, I might have consented to giving the data to someone for some purpose. However, they absolutely have no implied consent that they can…

So, take any service that connects buyers to sellers: eBay, Craigslist, AirBnB, realtors, etc... They are essentially in the business of trading personal data, so that the buyer and seller can get in contact and complete the transaction. It is even more obvious in dating sites/apps.

...but that's not the same you might say. That's right, but how do you put that into law? You need actual rules, "don't be evil" is not enough. There are hundreds of cases where sharing personal data is "right" and expected, and hundreds of cases where it is "wrong". You want to allow the "right" usage and ban the "wrong" usage. And then you have lobbies trying to explain why they are on the right side and their opponents are on the wrong side, and then you will have lawyers who are really good at finding loopholes, and in the end, what you get is something like GDPR with all its complexities. You can't really escape it.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#133

Post by idontpost »

vasco wrote: post #122
pyuser583 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not that it makes much of a difference for me, since I'm not an US citizen The NSA exists to spy on non-citizens, so it affects you more.

Yes but that is a fact of life for anyone that isn't a US citizen, to live under the good will of the largest army in the world which forces policy, laws, war etc on everyone else. That our comms are spied on is "just another" thing. I'm actually pretty fond of the US, love to visit and the culture - but not realizing we're all just living under the US empire is a bit naive. The US does whatever it wants and everyone…

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Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#134

Post by dataflow »

Dalewyn wrote: post #106
nehal3m wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's the case. The first line of the article reads: Is the NSA buying up Americans' location and browsing data? That's what's blocking instatement of a new director, so no, it won't have any effect on the data collected on foreigners.

Americans are Constitutionally guaranteed a right to privacy in the home, among other rights, and that's what the NSA is hung up on. The NSA spying on foreigners, who enjoy no protections from the Constitution, is part of its intended agenda.

> Americans are Constitutionally guaranteed a right to privacy in the home

Not really. It's been inferred from the text by courts, but it's been a bit of a leap, and the Supreme Court can overturn the earlier interpretations at any time. "Many originalists, including most famously Judge Robert Bork in his ill-fated Supreme Court confirmation hearings, have argued that no such general right of privacy exists."

[1] http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightof...

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#135

Post by sandworm101 »

sgift wrote: post #25

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation. So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, si…

Or we could all try to stop giving them our data. Cookie hygiene, vpns, randomizing metadata, ad blockers, not using Facebook, using a secure OSs, Tor ... there are things we can do to make their life harder. And to anyone who thinks this futile: that's what they want you to think.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#136

Post by tareqak »

pyuser583 wrote: post #90
sgift wrote: post #25

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation. So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, si…

> Not that it makes much of a difference for me, since I'm not an US citizen The NSA exists to spy on non-citizens, so it affects you more.

However, if a conversation happens between a citizen and a non-citizen , then that conversation is recorded and archived to storage for indexing and querying.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#137

Post by barrysteve »

sandworm101 wrote: post #135
sgift wrote: post #25

> This won't guarantee answers, however. It does mean the NSA will either need to satisfy Wyden's request, or Congress will need to hold a procedural vote to push through the confirmation. So, the most probable outcome is that this will delay the process for a few weeks at most until congress just pushes it through. At least it shines a bit light on the whole charade. Not that it makes much of a difference for me, si…

Or we could all try to stop giving them our data. Cookie hygiene, vpns, randomizing metadata, ad blockers, not using Facebook, using a secure OSs, Tor ... there are things we can do to make their life harder. And to anyone who thinks this futile: that's what they want you to think.

Alienating yourself into a 'security' bubble while GCHQ is capturing ALL internet data and holding it for up to a year, is like trying to catch the bolted horse.

It's over, privacy is dead and so is a private bedroom. We need physical answers to surveillance, electronics are totally ruined.

Sooner or later we need off this planet, surveillance has trapped everybody.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#138

Post by ilc »

NemoNobody wrote: post #53
user3939382 wrote: post #23

I’d be surprised if they’re “buying browsing data” instead of just having a tap on all major ISPs and siphoning everything off directly, or compelling ISPs to do this with NSLs.

They buy it so someone else has theoretically done all the nasty stuff to get it - they just take advantage of the opportunity. Truthfully, the NSA should know at least as much about me as Google, or I don't know why it exists.

The NSA doesn't need to know what Google knows. It needs to know things beyond what Google knows.

It may have less information overall. But that information may be of much higher value.

It is not much data to know how other countries are encrypting their political or military data. And the amount of data in there may not be that high.

The value is... tremendous. Bulk data collection, gives an overall picture. But the details that make it real, that's the secret sauce of the NSA and CIA.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#139

Post by phpisthebest »

bane wrote: post #116
phpisthebest wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you say is true in practice, it is based on a completely incorrect reading of the constitution by the US Court system The constitutional prohibitions should be applied to all government actions no matter where they are in the world, not just the land that is the US, as such the government prohibition on search should apply to all government agencies world wide. In short if it illegal for the NSA to spy on…

As a matter of ethics and morality you're probably not wrong. As a matter of law it's important that there is a distinction because it would cut both ways. Saying U.S. law that restricts the behavior of the United States Government should apply globally also implies that U.S. law in all other respects should apply globally. I mean, we'd appreciate your income tax, but you might not like all the gun ownership.

I am American, and 10000000% support the right to private gun ownership. I believe we should have less not more gun control

>> also implies that U.S. law in all other respects should apply globally.

No it does not imply that at all, again you are reversing the position I am talking about. In fact US Law probably applies too much to other nations via International Trade Agreements to other nations already.

Re: No new boss at NSA until it answers questions on buying location, browsing data

#140

Post by manonthewall »

worewood wrote: post #79

So it's like a canary: the senator has the answer but wants to make it public. If the answer was "no" then he wouldn't be pushing for it, so the answer is obviously yes, they are buying data of american citizens in bulk, warrantlessly

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