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Who makes the most reliable new cars?

consumerreports.org

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Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#131

Post by kspacewalk2 »

ajross wrote: post #124
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible how the Japanese carmakers were able to perfect the auto manufacturing process and then proceed to hold that advantage for what, 30+ years now? It's not a secret how they did it, it's been studied to death, every manner of technology/expertise/management transfer has been tried, and still no one comes quite close enough to threaten their position.

To be fair, exactly that level of investment in process and conservatism around change is arguably what led them all (literally every single Japanese manufacturer) to miss the boat on EVs. Basically, getting to your last sentence: you have the wrong threat model. Making "cars better" is great if what a "car" is doesn't change. But what the market wants is "better cars".

I'd hold off on declaring that the EV boat has departed. It remains to be seen at what level EV uptake will plateau, without major advances in battery tech and EV practicality. Coming from a rather nippy Canadian city which bought a bunch of electric buses, fucked up badly[0] and probably made purchasing more electric buses an untenable proposition for (conservatively) 5-7 years, and having heard from multiple EV owners about the less glamorous aspects of EV ownership in Canada (charging cost/duration/convenience, battery performance in cold weather, skyrocketing insurance and repair costs)... The boat, far from being missed, is still in the dry dock.

[0] https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/more-than-half-o...

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#132

Post by sumthinprofound »

jansan wrote: post #126
stouset wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s a component. But I would be surprised if that’s a primary reason. There’s just a lot more to go wrong with an ICE vehicle. You need oil and regular oil changes. A radiator, tubing, and antifreeze. An alternator. A carburetor and a catalytic converter. Timing belts. A exhaust system. None of this (as far as I know, IANAM) is needed for an electric vehicle. A disproportionate amount of…

> You need oil and regular oil changes. Slightly OT, but I recently found that here in Germany there is a service where you can go to just like to a car wash without making an appointment. They will do the oil change for you within ten minutes or so and you do not even have to get out of your car during that time. This makes oil changes so much less annoying.

This has been common in the US for at least a decade now.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#133

Post by saiya-jin »

injb wrote: post #94
dheera wrote: post #19

There's also whether people ignore warning signs or not. I previously had a long-term rented Ford Focus via Canvas (which is no longer around). There were lots of issues with it. A bumper valence that had some screw holes that had expanded and would fall off if only 1 additional screw failed. They were unwilling to fix it, and it did in fact fall off on the highway later due to their unwillingness. Tire treads had al…

True, but the people who ignore warnings on VWs also ignore them on Toyotas, and yet Toyota still consistently comes in ahead. I do think there are cultural issues though with the US vs Europe. It's very common that cars that are known for quality and reliability in Europe are regarded as exceptionally temperamental in the US. When I first moved to the US I couldn't understand why German cars had such a bad reputatio…

My girlfriend bought her Toyota corolla for 5000 bucks some time ago, old, used, and soon started showing engine warn sign. Pretty bad if you ask me. Yet that light never manifested into anything real, 80k+ km down the road, still works reliably (technician couldn't find anything and just resetting it soon brought it back).

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#134

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mkii wrote: post #103
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't see how 'Tesla' is not top of the list here Tesla owners love their cars. This means they tend to overlook issues others might find unacceptable. If my car just refused to drive until I restarted it a few times, that would be a catastrophic fuckup. But I’ve seen Tesla owners shrug that away. Which is fine! There have always been legendary cars with notorious maintenance issues. But base reliability matters to…

Is it fine though? For people to use machines that are known to put others in danger? I'm referring to "FSD" doing absolutely bullshit things like not detecting objects in the way.

> referring to "FSD" doing absolutely bullshit things like not detecting objects in the way

Did Consumer Reports look at FSD? I don't think optional features like that factor into reliability.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#135

Post by TheCleric »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #82
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72

Would love to see this scattered against maintenance cost. Having to take my Subaru in for an oil change every six months is annoying, even if it means I’ve only ever had one serious issue. (Computer flipped out because someone didn’t close the gas cap tightly enough, leading to a service visit requirement, which is absurd.)

I do my own oil change, but how much can it cost? Surely not more than $50 and 20min I hope.

Oh it's definitely more than $50.

I have done my oil changes in the past, and for the recommended oil and filter on my 8 year old Toyota, $50 would cover 5 quarts of oil and a cheap filter. Add in disposal + labor, it's sometimes just easier to pay my local mechanic the $75 for the oil change.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#136

Post by wetpaws »

alex_c wrote: post #80

>We weigh the severity of each type of problem to create a predicted reliability score for each vehicle, from 1 to 100. It bothers me to see a 1 to 100 scale for this - what does the number actually mean in practice? Comparing a score of 80 and a score of 20, does that mean the lower score is likely to need 4x as many trips to the mechanic? 4x as much spent on repairs in a year? In other words - how big is the gap be…

[dead]

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#137

Post by Vecr »

crazygringo wrote: post #10
CamperBob2 wrote: post #2

Hard to answer the question because "reliable" means different things to different people. Infotainment system keeps dropping Bluetooth connections? "Unreliable." Engine seizes at 70 MPH? "Unreliable." Car only has minor mechanical problems, but dealers can't get parts for months? "Unreliable." A car is too complex a thing to be characterized with a single scalar value.

The article explicitly accounts for the severity of different issues, and assigns them different point values. You absolutely can reduce it to a single scalar value. You might personally disagree with the weights, but then your calculation is just a little bit different. And you have to be able to reduce it to a scalar value at the end of the day, or else you'd never be able to make a decision about which car to buy,…

Technically a resolute agent can handle a utility function that messed up, but I'm not sure if people in general would be able to self-commit well enough.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#138

Post by 303uru »

TheCleric wrote: post #123
stouset wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s a component. But I would be surprised if that’s a primary reason. There’s just a lot more to go wrong with an ICE vehicle. You need oil and regular oil changes. A radiator, tubing, and antifreeze. An alternator. A carburetor and a catalytic converter. Timing belts. A exhaust system. None of this (as far as I know, IANAM) is needed for an electric vehicle. A disproportionate amount of…

Yes, but wouldn't a hybrid be a worst of both worlds? All the problems of an ICE engine AND the potential electric issues?

I don't think so. You're using two low load, low power systems combined. The least reliable ICE systems almost always correlate to the more powerful ones.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#139

Post by Vecr »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #101
qup wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they won most recommended, sorry. I spent a while looking for the thread, but can't find it. Here's a very similar one, though, which was in AskReddit vs AskMechanics. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/jbw8i7/mechanics... Interestingly, on the OP link, they don't list the Tacoma, notoriously one of the most reliable vehicles.

Weird that consumer reports would exclude one of the top selling Toyota vehicles in the US.

"Not technically a car" but I don't think that's the correct reason for why the article wouldn't have.
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