I used to play Total Annihilation online back when I was in secondary school in the late 90s We'd hang out on IRC, and people would host a game on their IP. Eventually I got into creating new units for the game. You had to animate them with a C-like language, and I was trying to teach myself C at the time so that was part of my programming journey. The 'Swedish Yankspankers' were a clan that had a channel on the IRC…
You'll love what the community did with Supreme Commander, Chris Taylor's spiritual successor to Total Annihilation: https://www.faforever.com/ They even created a Coop-Campaign and a completely new faction.
Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
131–140 of 147 posts
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am OK with war games as long as there's no humans or human-likes in the game. ZK's sentient robots are fine for me, contrary to something like 0 A.D. (which even has female workers - maybe I'm old school, but that's even more a no-go for me).
In Total Annihilation, the Arm side had actual humans inside the robots. Has that lore changed in Zero-K? I feel like such a pedantic nerd asking this, but the debate over people vs. sentient robots was the whole reason for the war!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IP1mp3cgRo
(I'm not exactly sure what the current official lore is - at some point it has been added to the campaign though, but also of note : both TA faction have been compressed into one and then split into 11+1+1 factories for gameplay reasons.)
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'll love what the community did with Supreme Commander, Chris Taylor's spiritual successor to Total Annihilation: https://www.faforever.com/ They even created a Coop-Campaign and a completely new faction.
Supreme Commander's getting its own spiritual successor: https://www.sanctuaryshatteredsun.com/
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
BAR is more similar to the original Total Annihilation (and successors like Supreme Commander). It's a lot of similar units (e.g. tanks) with subtle variations, multiple tiers, with a focus on out-numbering your opponent. Zero-K went a different route. They simplified the economy (metal cost = energy cost) but added a whole lot of mechanics like overdrive grids and made every unit unique. There is a lot of variety wi…
> unit-throwers Was the BAR peewee-launching gun inspired by Zero-K ?
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Supreme Commander's getting its own spiritual successor: https://www.sanctuaryshatteredsun.com/
I thought Planetary Annihilation was a spiritual successor to both TA and SC
Supreme Commander's budget was about $50M USD (circa the mid-2000s), and Mavor was lead engineer on the project.
Beyond All Reason is arguably more similar to Total Annihilation than Planetary Annihilation.
By that same token, Sanctuary is the closest thing to a complete remake of Supreme Commander. Granted, Forged Alliance Forever has had such incredible work put in by the community that it comes close, but it's ultimately stuck on the same engine.
Turns out Mavor has a new company now, and I'm elated to hear someone's finally combining Factorio with a decent RTS component:
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
To clarify, ZK doesn't population caps like e.g. Starcraft. The actual limit is actually the CPU/GPU (and maybe your bandwidth too). ZK's 16vs16 host, the "lobster pot" as they call it, can barely be playable if your rig is too weak.
> ZK doesn't population caps That sounds like poor RTS design. Popcap is one of the simplest and most effective "anti-snowballing" mechanisms. Once you're "maxed out", you cannot get further ahead - you must attack and trade to build new stuff. If you can just keep making stuff without ever being forced to trade, whoever gets ahead first, eventually wins. Supply also serves as a comeback mechanic - you were even, but…
Zero-K solves the problems solved by popcap in other ways. Income tracks map control, and controlling more of the map is hard, so players that are ahead don't have the freedom to sit back and build up an overwhelming army. Armies are fighting or jockeying for position throughout the game and army size and composition keeps escalating. Defenders advantage shifts to attackers advantage as things escalate, so people can't just sit in their base. The overall effect is that, while there is a pop cap at the technical level, it is 10x higher than the unit counts that even the largest battles tend to equilibrate to.
Talking about the lack of popcap is a bit backwards in a way. There are just so many subtle things that mean the question of popcap never has to come up. Maps are pretty open, units don't fire through each other, AoE exists... the list goes on. A better question might be why games with a popcap couldn't be designed away from the failure mode of people sitting in their base making larger and larger armies. Having to put a hard cap on army sizes, that people regularly reach, is sort of a drastic measure.
On supply, I'd say what you said about supply is pretty important. But the aspect of it you bring up isn't limited to popcap. Eg C&C games have power plants that act as construction supply. Rebuilding your base is easier the second time around, as long as you keep your power plants. There is something similar in Zero-K with energy. Metal comes from points around the map while energy can be built in your base, and both resources are used for construction. When you take more metal spots you also need more energy, and the energy is nowhere near as vulnerable. That is the main supply-like comeback mechanic, which works since part of your economy is always vulnerable. Reclaiming wrecks for metal is another comeback mechanic.
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> svedish yankspankers Presuming that the main code contributions also come from the Swedish scene I'm not entirely surprised that this happened. It sort of fits my impression of the gamer/programmer culture here (although I can't quite express why)
3 months of night, either tinker, drinker or metal guy torching towns church(thinker).
Surprisingly, that was only one metal band and every other metal band hates them for it. I have been told the average metal fan freaking loves churches and their acoustics. They might not like The Church, but they love churches.
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
BAR is more similar to the original Total Annihilation (and successors like Supreme Commander). It's a lot of similar units (e.g. tanks) with subtle variations, multiple tiers, with a focus on out-numbering your opponent. Zero-K went a different route. They simplified the economy (metal cost = energy cost) but added a whole lot of mechanics like overdrive grids and made every unit unique. There is a lot of variety wi…
> unit-throwers Was the BAR peewee-launching gun inspired by Zero-K ?
https://supcom2.fandom.com/wiki/Noah_Experimental_Unit_Canno...
But if I'm not mistaken Zero-K's pulling/pushing beam weapons predate SupCom2 (combined with terraformed ramps you get a unit cannon, though making the unit survive on landing is an additional challenge), though Lobsters came out after :
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought Planetary Annihilation was a spiritual successor to both TA and SC
That's technically true. Planetary Annihilation was a heroic effort lead by Jonathan Mavor (formerly of Gas Powered Games) that fused elements of TA, SC, and its own crazy ideas on what amounted to a shoestring budget. Supreme Commander's budget was about $50M USD (circa the mid-2000s), and Mavor was lead engineer on the project. Beyond All Reason is arguably more similar to Total Annihilation than Planetary Annihila…
> IA is a unique blend of genres: deep factory building combined with real-time strategy action.
Re: Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and energy
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
A popcap would have to be logarithmic or something. The most expensive ZK unit costs nearly a thousand times more than the cheapest one ! http://zero-k.info/mediawiki/Detriment http://zero-k.info/mediawiki/Flea Not sure why you would expect that turtling (porc(upine)ing) would work in a competitive game with 2 teams, the opponnents will just take the rest of the map and then crush you using these extra resources. And…
> Not sure why you would expect that turtling (porc(upine)ing) would work in a competitive game with 2 teams, the opponnents will just take the rest of the map and then crush you using these extra resources. That's exactly the issue, when playing in a random team. Matchmaking can be a real dice roll in a small playerbase (which SC2 4v4 is). Sometimes I get teammates 500MMR below me, where the metagame is almost alway…