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Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

deepmind.google

131–140 of 361 posts

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#131
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that pure formal perfection is not the only component in art; art has to mean something. But quality has always been a very important aspect of popularity in art as well as in music (see: Renaissance sculptors & painters, Baroque and Classical composers, etc.) Great art is when a unique, profound emotion or insight is expressed with great execution. AI helps with the last part; real artists should still…

> Great art is when a unique, profound emotion or insight is expressed with great execution. Emphasis on unique

Can you give an example of a unique insight or emotion? A lot of the classic books I read, the greatest films of all time, and the most celebrated visual artists are unique mostly in style or execution, but all express the same basic universal human truths.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#132

After a lot of thinking, I have come to a conclusion that expresses me personally, so feel free to disagree if you like: The human being was not created to be deprived of the right to express his feelings through fine arts. From the moment you deprive me of the right to express myself as I feel through external as well as internal stimuli and you want to replace me with an insensitive mechanism that neither feels nor…

This tool will help people who're not musically trained to express themselves musically.

Its not self expression when something else does the expressing.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#133
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that pure formal perfection is not the only component in art; art has to mean something. But quality has always been a very important aspect of popularity in art as well as in music (see: Renaissance sculptors & painters, Baroque and Classical composers, etc.) Great art is when a unique, profound emotion or insight is expressed with great execution. AI helps with the last part; real artists should still…

But effort itself is also a quality. The fact that a human took out a substantial fraction of their time on planet earth to create something is already a sign that at least one individual cared about the work: the creator. If art is like vomit then that initial round of validation is absent.

This.

A videogame AI[1] (the AI itself; we're not talking about its developers here) in a FPS being invincible with omniscience and perfect accuracy, at most makes me think "nice".

But a flawed meaty human with enough skill to be the best human at that same game, makes me think "wtf is this witchcraft", with full respect and acknowledgment, and I'll have way more interest in them than in the perfect omniscient flawless AI.

[1]: Yes, I know here "AI" is not used in the same sense as in the article. The point still stands.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#134
To quote from 1984:

> The tune had been haunting London for weeks past. It was one of countless similar songs published for the benefit of the proles by a sub-section of the Music Department. The words of these songs were composed without any human intervention whatever on an instrument known as a versificator. But the woman sang so tunefully as to turn the dreadful rubbish into an almost pleasant sound. He could hear the woman singing and the scrape of her shoes on the flagstones, and the cries of the children in the street, and somewhere in the distance, a faint roar of traffic, and yet the room seemed curiously silent, thanks to the absence of a telescreen.

Part of me worries that I am just gatekeeping.

However to me, the point of music was that its meant to put across something personal, human and emotional. Even when its a cover. Whether its a protest song, or shouting about taking someone to a gay bar. To automate that away, what does that do to us culturally?

So much of our identity comes from shared art. Emos liked emo music (you know with the shouty backing singer), goths went for death metal or the cure. Indie twats waxed lyrical about how heroine was great for the libertines.

All of that shared (mostly bullshit) memory is going to disappear, so what will bring us together, unite groups of kids with a shared like of x? Will it matter?

I worry that all the things I enjoy doing are being automated away. Perhaps this is what the weavers felt like when they were replaced with powered looms. Or cabinet makers felt when they saw steam powered power tools that sparked the arts and crafts movement[1]

I also frankly worry about how my kids are going to make money.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_and_Crafts_movement#Criti...

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#135

In "Brave New World," all the music is made by machines. We are approaching that dystopia. For me, much of the pleasure in listening to music lies in appreciating the virtuosity of the musicians. It's like watching a great tennis player or a great dancer. You admire their skill and grace and technical mastery. For me, listening to music made by machines would be like watching robots playing tennis, or robots dancing.…

Unfortunately for many people music is nothing more than 'something to play in the background'.

I'm sure this reads as very cynical, but a lot of the replies here seem to be written by people who do not like music, or don't place much value in it.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tool will help people who're not musically trained to express themselves musically.

Its not self expression when something else does the expressing.

It's almost like the peak form of being a consumer. All you have to do is express your desire in a sophisticated (maybe even not sophisticated?) way, and you can easily pay a device to fulfill it on the cheap.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#137
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think this will lower the barrier of entry for music creation?

NO, it will lower the barrier for music generation, which is different from CREATION, which implies a creative act.

It's your conjecture that using AI tools doesn't involve a creative act. That conjecture may be true inside your mind, but so far you haven't provided support for it through your words - all you did was scream into the void as if everyone who doesn't agree with your conjecture is mad.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are people going to become professional musicians if it stops being a career?

Becoming a professional musician isn't a "right" of any kind. You don't have a "right" to be paid to do anything you want. You're certainly allowed to do it (barring outright criminal activity), but don't expect to be entitled to monetary compensation.

Plenty of musicians make money doing live performances. Since Spotify, record sales are just not a great revenue stream any more. I don't see AI impacting this much. But of course there are going to be some musicians that specialize in background music or other forms of, relatively, low value music work that are going to be affected by this.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#139
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What “privilege” is required to learn to play guitar? Was Jimmy Hendrix privileged? Robert Johnson?

Hand and finger privilege. It's much harder to play if you don't have hands or fingers!

I know plenty of guitarists that play quite well with their feet.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#140
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every tool that makes it easier to create art is good in my book. In years past you had to actually have the instruments and had to know how to work them. Now you can much easier learn to use simpler tools to get even better results, which just increases the amount of people that can actually realize their creativity.

But part of the whole point of listening to music is enjoying the expression of the people playing the instrument. Music is much more than just the final output of a machine, it's an expression of the soul. You may be able to create music more easily with this tool, but I guarantee it will be soulless, just like Google. The results certainly will not be better. They will be a hideous amalgam from a computer. Just lis…

The same arguments were made to dismiss rock music when compared to classical music. And a world without the Velvet Underground would be more soulless to me.

I've heard soulless music performed by highly trained musicians playing on great instruments. And soulful music played on crappy instruments by untrained musicians. On average, the great music comes from the more trained musicians on the better tools.

AI is just another tool. The vast majority of music is terrible. It will continue to be terrible. And a few geniuses will use AI the way Hendrix used the electric guitar. I'm excited to hear what that will sound like.

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