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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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131–140 of 167 posts

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but I’m also someone who thinks dryer sheets are a scam as well.

They’re not?

I personally find that if I don't use them, my socks, towels, etc all come out very stiff and dry.

Yes, I know it's not ideal for towels because the wax inhibits some absorption, but I couldn't stand it so I just went back to using dryer sheets.

Soon I'll be getting a good quality dryer with a steam sanitize mode, maybe that will help.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always wondered what dishes look like with rinse aid and why people buy it. What am I missing? Are my dishes and glasses not sparkly enough without this aid?

Are you using tablets?

No - liquid. Why? Does it matter?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not?

I personally find that if I don't use them, my socks, towels, etc all come out very stiff and dry. Yes, I know it's not ideal for towels because the wax inhibits some absorption, but I couldn't stand it so I just went back to using dryer sheets. Soon I'll be getting a good quality dryer with a steam sanitize mode, maybe that will help.

I use them on clothing, but not on towels. Best of both worlds.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using tablets?

No - liquid. Why? Does it matter?

Tablets have rinse aid already added. I don't know anything about liquids, though. It is not a thing in Germany afaik.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#135
post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

Yes but isn't this even worse? I can control what I use at home. I can't when I eat or drink out. So I get to pick between PFAS soaked throwaway single use cardboard cups or epithelial barrier damaging glass/ceramic ware.

No. You use the third choice, that you already mentioned. Eat at home. The quality is better. The price is cheaper. The service is personalized.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#136

Ok, this is posed to generate some sensationalist headlines. Do we get these concentrations with regular use in a dishwasher? Does it have cumulative exposure effects? Does it even reach the gut lining after digestion enzymes and acids? From the summary it seems that they only investigated the dose dependent toxicity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33822149

11 months ago. Direct copy of linked study.

I stopped using extra shine mode on my Bosch dishwasher to save a little rinse aid. Noticed no difference. Vinegar ruined the seals and had to replace it.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Household dishwashers are not affected because they usually have an additional wash cycle in the end. This study is about professional machines which wash dishes in mere minutes. So you can't do anything about it if you still want to eat at restaurants and don't want to bring your own dishes.

Always wondered what dishes look like with rinse aid and why people buy it. What am I missing? Are my dishes and glasses not sparkly enough without this aid?

Hard water. The rinse aid fixes that. Otherwise my glasses or silverware have to be rewashed and dried to get the spots out.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#138
post #2

Get yourself a big old tub of anhydrous citric acid from Amazon or wherever, make up a 10% solution and use that in place of rinse aid. Just check with your dishwasher manufacturer that it’s not going to cause issues first. I got a new Miele unit a few months ago and the manual specifically advises the use of such a solution, with caution not to make it any stronger. It’s been working like a charm.

I'm not using rinse aid at all. Just dishwasher gel with no rinse aid included, and salt. Cheap-ish Beko dishwasher. No issues.

So, you use the salt as a rinse aid?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#139
post #2

Get yourself a big old tub of anhydrous citric acid from Amazon or wherever, make up a 10% solution and use that in place of rinse aid. Just check with your dishwasher manufacturer that it’s not going to cause issues first. I got a new Miele unit a few months ago and the manual specifically advises the use of such a solution, with caution not to make it any stronger. It’s been working like a charm.

I stopped using rinse-aid entirely on my 10-year old Bosch, and barely notice a difference. Maybe plastics come out a tad wetter than before, but they were never fully dry even with rinse-aid.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#140
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I've ever known? Who doesn't separate meat in their fridge, and who's keeping so much in there at one time that this is a problem? Dating opening times is going too far IMO: if it's open, and longer then 7 days in the fridge you toss it. Which is to say, if you can't remember when you opened it, that's also a good sign not to eat it. It's not like any of this is hard to do. Although this: > a home dishwasher…

Also restaurant vs home cooking is like a classic principal agent problem. If I don't want to get sick, I store stuff reasonably, sniff before cooking, and don't hold things past date/days open. A restaurant wanting to make money is incentivized against being "better safe than sorry" on throwing away stuff rather than serving it. They care more about complying with the letter of the law with respect to passing health…

> For the "you get food poisoning at home all the time and don't know it / its just like flu" crowd.. I'd argue you maybe have not had the most severe, rapid onset forms that you can get from a restaurant.

People who have had botulism know that isn't real food poisoning..

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