Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

spectrum.ieee.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 169 posts

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#131

Post by mistrial9 »

salamandersss wrote: post #124
chx wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

say what Texas has made a conscious decision since 1935 when FDR signed the Federal Power Act to stay away because they didn't want the feds to mess with their grid. The feds have no power here because the Texas grid does not cross state lines. When West Texas Utilities did connect through state lines in 1976 (called the Midnight Connection) both HL&P and Texas Electric Service Company immediately disconnected from t…

Yes the federal regulations make demands in order to connect. The feds can release their hostages and drop the federal regulation demands and deregulate and Texas would surely connect to these interstate grids as they did to Mexico.

seeing is believing, until then no one can say that with any certainty

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#132

Post by standeven »

ako wrote: post #107
standeven wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physics work, but cost has historically been the issue. My current project involves driving down the cost to make extremely affordable 50 kWh flywheel modules.

Sized to fit in a car?

No, stationary only. It’s modular, so you can combine as many as you need for grid-scale storage.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#133

Post by [deleted] »

Waterluvian wrote: post #127
rbanffy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU itself is a thing to behold. Just managing to prevent wars between their members for so many decades is a remarkable accomplishment, unheard of in the continent's troubled history. Not perfect, and certainly not invulnerable to bad actors, but still a beautiful accomplishment of will and politics.

Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies. It kind of feels similar to how monarchs tried to form lasting peace further back: inter-marry so that everyone is someone’s cousin they grew up with. Of course that didn’t exactly work perfectly.

[deleted]

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#134

Post by jacquesm »

jeffrallen wrote: post #112
jeffrallen wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if those rotors were even a few grams out of balance, you'd feel it. Also, if something went wrong with the valves, you'd also hear it. Right before you drowned and/or were killed by flying concrete. Moving water does NOT like to stop.

Here's a documentary on one disaster: https://youtu.be/OjMtbkFF3RM 75 deaths. RIP.

Oh, that's ugly. Not to be callous: but it could have been much worse still, in spite of all of the failing safety systems. The dam itself could have failed and the downstream effects would have been on a completely different level.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#135

Post by D_Alex »

Waterluvian wrote: post #127
rbanffy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU itself is a thing to behold. Just managing to prevent wars between their members for so many decades is a remarkable accomplishment, unheard of in the continent's troubled history. Not perfect, and certainly not invulnerable to bad actors, but still a beautiful accomplishment of will and politics.

Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies. It kind of feels similar to how monarchs tried to form lasting peace further back: inter-marry so that everyone is someone’s cousin they grew up with. Of course that didn’t exactly work perfectly.

>Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies.

Did not work terribly well for the former Soviet republics :(

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#136

Post by wolverine876 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #127
rbanffy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU itself is a thing to behold. Just managing to prevent wars between their members for so many decades is a remarkable accomplishment, unheard of in the continent's troubled history. Not perfect, and certainly not invulnerable to bad actors, but still a beautiful accomplishment of will and politics.

Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies. It kind of feels similar to how monarchs tried to form lasting peace further back: inter-marry so that everyone is someone’s cousin they grew up with. Of course that didn’t exactly work perfectly.

> Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies.

On one hand, I read experts say that. On the other, I read experts point out that it failed to prevent WWI.

I wonder what the consensus is, if there is one, and what the evidence is.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#137

Post by Waterluvian »

wolverine876 wrote: post #136
Waterluvian wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies. It kind of feels similar to how monarchs tried to form lasting peace further back: inter-marry so that everyone is someone’s cousin they grew up with. Of course that didn’t exactly work perfectly.

> Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies. On one hand, I read experts say that. On the other, I read experts point out that it failed to prevent WWI. I wonder what the consensus is, if there is one, and what the evidence is.

Yeah my thoughts too. My feeling is that there won’t be some perfect solution that stops all wars. But that it was a very rational idea that may have stopped some.

Indeed it would be interesting to see experts attempt to enumerate situations that were avoided through this approach. Though I’m not sure if that’s even possible given it requires a form of alternate reality synthesis which is all but pure bias.

A statistical approach may find there’s still too little data?

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#138

Post by wolverine876 »

chx wrote: post #70
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this article from bloomberg on the event! > Europe’s grid, which is usually connected from Lisbon to Istanbul, split into two as the northwest and southeast regions struggled to keep the same frequency. The problem originated in Croatia and led to the equivalent of 200,000 households losing power across Europe. Supply to industrial sites was cut in France and Italy. > Transmission grids need to stay at a freq…

You don't need that, the official report is good https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2021/07/15/final-report-on-the-se...

Official reports can be self-serving, both intentionally and unintentionally (it represents only one perspective). Journalists talk to many sources with many perspectives.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#139

Post by wolverine876 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #137
wolverine876 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies. On one hand, I read experts say that. On the other, I read experts point out that it failed to prevent WWI. I wonder what the consensus is, if there is one, and what the evidence is.

Yeah my thoughts too. My feeling is that there won’t be some perfect solution that stops all wars. But that it was a very rational idea that may have stopped some. Indeed it would be interesting to see experts attempt to enumerate situations that were avoided through this approach. Though I’m not sure if that’s even possible given it requires a form of alternate reality synthesis which is all but pure bias. A statist…

> My feeling is that there won’t be some perfect solution that stops all wars. But that it was a very rational idea that may have stopped some.

Yes, absolutely. Also, it generally makes us wealthier.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#140

Post by dundarious »

Waterluvian wrote: post #127
rbanffy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU itself is a thing to behold. Just managing to prevent wars between their members for so many decades is a remarkable accomplishment, unheard of in the continent's troubled history. Not perfect, and certainly not invulnerable to bad actors, but still a beautiful accomplishment of will and politics.

Seems like the trick really is to deeply intertwine economies. It kind of feels similar to how monarchs tried to form lasting peace further back: inter-marry so that everyone is someone’s cousin they grew up with. Of course that didn’t exactly work perfectly.

That was the thesis of "The Great Illusion", published in 1911. Basically, nation states would rationally avoid war, as it is pure downside, economically. Obviously it's at least insufficient.

I think it's a totally naive view. Even if we limit ourselves to only thinking about rational actors, we must always ask about economic costs for whom. Nation states do not operate as a unit as a rational economic actor -- we must look at the competing actors within. One group could somewhat win, and another substantially lose, and that may net out to a negative -- it happens regularly. Many are clamoring for it right now -- a new Cold War against China.

Post reply on HN