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Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

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Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#131

Post by xenospn »

hef19898 wrote: post #16
willsmith72 wrote: post #15

It's only 120 employees.. Come on Tesla, do you have to prove how special you are?

Amazon is an interesting example: In Germany they insisted on paying their warehouse workers based on, but not boind by, Germany's collective bargained logistics agreement (Tarifvertrag) and not the retail one. On France, during the same time, they accepted the French retail agreement with the respective unions. Guess which one, retail or logistics, has the lower salaries in each country. That Tesla isn't even willin…

Hubris.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#132

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #112
audunw wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to share my reply to a comment reply here that was deleted, which called this “crazy”: It’s not crazy. It’s a very effective way of balancing the power dynamics between corporations and workers. What’s crazy is not having these rights enshrined in law. Why should the government tell workers how they can or cannot strike? This way of doing it gets you one thing that some Americans dream of: no federal mandated un…

> It’s not crazy. It’s a very effective way of balancing the power dynamics between corporations and workers. What’s crazy is not having these rights enshrined in law. Why should the government tell workers how they can or cannot strike? It's like asking, why should the government tell business how they can or cannot do business? It's essentially an anti-trust issue. You don't want any organization to have too much p…

[deleted]

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#133

Post by nabla9 »

virgildotcodes wrote: post #17
s1artibartfast wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also add that many (most?) European countries allow multiple unions in the same shop, with worker choice. Inter-union competition is important to keep unions honest and aligned with their workers. I think this more than anything else is responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.

I'd say corporations and their wealthy owners, far more than any other factor, are responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.

If you think this little more, you must realize that this is not a good argument

Systemic and institutional reasons are more important than individuals.Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#134

Post by enterprise_cog »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #101
daenney wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't vote for it, or against it. In most countries, citizens don't get to vote on individual laws. We vote people into power, who then hopefully don't enact laws that harm us. But as we all know by now, that's never stopped a politician.

> didn't vote for it, or against it Outside urban centres and select belts of the country, unions poll poorly. A candidate running on pro-union credentials will perform the same as, or underperform, one who is neutral on the issue. Ignoring the trust deficit American unions have with the public is partly why this situation isn’t changing. > citizens don't get to vote on individual laws Most American states have refer…

Of course it’s a struggle when millions are spent every year by capital to actively suppress and demonize unions. There is an active propaganda campaign against them.

It’s not just some innate thing that Americans don’t like unions.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#136

Post by eddtries »

VoxPelli wrote: post #125
eddtries wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I don’t know if they’re on top of or a total replacement, but even as a replacement I’m happy! I work as a consultant so it’s always a little risky finding clients, but my annual take home from the previous year covers the downtime And honestly I’d argue this fairly liberal approach encourages entrepreneurship because you have so many safety nets

It’s on top of, as the maximum you can get from public unemployment funds are capped fairly low nowadays and rarely reaches the intended 80%, hence why the unions steps in and offers extra insurance Unions typically offer collectively bargained felt insurance and such here as well

Thanks for the context :)

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#137

Post by rvnx »

Gud wrote: post #129
hef19898 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of government unemployment benefits? That is incredibly generous!

Although this is often administered by a union, you don't have to be a union member to be a part of an A-kassa. Essentially, it's an unemployment insurance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_funds_in_Sweden

As far as I know and as the person above explains, you don't need to join an union; example with this one:

https://alfakassan.se/en/when-you-receive-benefits/

You can go through an union, because they managed to take over parts of the government system that distributes the subsidies, but you are just adding one intermediary to whom you pay a fee and encouraging that (which can be a good thing too, in case they are actively supportive and more efficient; someone local may know better).

Though, what I originally wanted to express, is that in some companies, if you are not member of a specific union, then you do not get access to promotions, to the most interesting jobs, or even getting the risk to getting fired because you suddenly do mistakes and be replaced with someone more union-friendly, etc.

This is the type of protection I meant. Protecting you from their own harm.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#138

Post by dagw »

dylan604 wrote: post #121
nabla9 wrote: post #4

American companies often think that European unions are just stronger than unions in Europe. They don't realize that labor and union laws are different. Toys R Us tried the same in Sweden. They initially refused agreement and hired only non-union workers. But transport and logistics workers union and finance union started sympathy strike. Toys R Us didn't get deliveries and bank workers refused work related to compan…

I have issues with unions becoming way too powerful and prevent things from being done efficiently. I get certain aspects are safety related like needing an electrician to come in to wire up certain things. But I've had a friend that was a network installer that was allowed to mount the gear in the rack and wire in the low voltage ethernet cabling, but was not allowed to attache the power cord. That required the time…

That required the time of an electrician union member.

For what it's worth, that is simply not a thing in Sweden. Being a union member (or not) is completely separated from any certifications or licensing. You cannot have being a union member as a requirement for hiring someone or have jobs that are only open to union members.

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#139

Post by VirusNewbie »

VoxPelli wrote: post #123
VirusNewbie wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is you have a societal issue if you have thousands of workers migrating who are looking to work and willing to work for less. You can either choose to house and feed them and prevent them from working, or you can realize labor is cheaper.

We have no such race to the bottom here in Sweden

Interesting. Are refugees or illegal immigrants allowed to work? Do they get social services? Would they work if they could?

Re: Swedish unions strike: Blocks mail and package deliveries for Tesla

#140

Post by MrDresden »

bbarn wrote: post #92
MrDresden wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Icelander here. We have 90+% union participation in the country. A large portion of certain unions are immigrant workers. They have at numerous times gone on strike for better pay. So, at least here, your hypothesis does not seem to hold. This is probably due to the unions educating those immigrant workers on what their rights are.

Iceland also has very bizarre "union" structures that more resemble professional associations than unions in other countries. When I worked at a software company in Kópavogur, on my team of 7 there were at least 4 different unions represented.

I'm not sure bizarre would be the way I'd describe it, but it is probably not identical to how the setup is everywhere else.

There are those that fit the professional association description, for instance the union of computer scientists which mandates a university degree in cs to become a member (this union does do collective bargaining with government and municipalities but not private enterprises), but then there are more broader unions for bigger sectors that do collective bargaining against the industrial collective (samtök atvinnulífsins).

So, I'm not sure what is with the downvotes for bbarn's comment. Its a point that isn't far off.

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